Author Topic: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?  (Read 2141 times)

S/V AMITY

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2020, 10:08:02 AM »
  Your engine looks good compared to some.  OK, I'll say it: stay away from blasting.

  This engine was out & worked on previously.  Paint colour mis-match between the block & pan tells that story.  From what your picture shows I'd replace ALL accessible gaskets, replace all flex hoses & wiring.  Run the engine in the shop for a couple of hours to confirm all's well.  From there de-grease & get as much of the loose paint off as you can.  If you really want to get ALL the old paint off, spray unscented Easy-Off oven cleaner on the offending areas. It works like a charm.  Degrease engine again (brake cleaner works well), then prime & repaint.  Keep the engine beautiful by watching for any water/fuel leaks and addressing them promptly. 

  While the engine is out, now would be a good time to check for any leaks around the steering pedestal mounting points.  If they leaking, all your efforts on the engine will be wasted.

Dale Tanski

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2020, 10:24:05 AM »
If it were me, unless you are planning on a complete tear down, all off, everything apart, prepping the externals for paint using something like soda blast or glass beads will be tough to do.  It will be all but impossible to keep contaminants form entering the internals using an accelerated airborne abrasive.  Once inside who knows what will happen.  If its all apart, let-er rip and clean after the fact. I would even prepaint sub assemblies if you go this way.

Even if you are planning on a complete tear down or a wash and paint, degreasing should be the first order of business.  I would use some sort of solvent and then perhaps a trip to the quarter car wash or a steam cleaner.  If the original paint has questionable adhesion characteristics it should/will fail during any of the above procedures.  If a solvent or pressure wash wont take it off it should be good to go. 

I solvent cleaned my 4-107 and sprayed it with a two part urethane in 2005.  I stuck with the Westerbeke orange/red color and to this day it looks like new.  That includes 8 straight full days running the Erie Canal.  If you get it all done and 4 years from now you see a line of weeping oil down that snow white paint job are you going to tear it apart again? Probably not but it would look sweet. One thing is for sure... sooner or latter it will leak some how some where. 

Before you stick it all back together I would recommend installing a oil drain hose from the drain fitting on the bottom of the oil pan down into the bilge with a cap on the end.  When it comes time for an oil change take the cap off and drop the hose into a empty gallon container and let it drain. This is something I forgot to do on mine.  Also, I installed a remote oil filter that mounts on the bulkhead.  That little option makes for a much better experience while changing the filter, nothing drooling down the motor.

Dale
"Maruska"
Pearson 365 Cutter Ketch
1976 Hull #40
Buffalo, N.Y.

jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2020, 01:26:49 PM »
Good point on the pedestal bolts. Dale is right about the oil drain hose-I installed one and no longer dread an oil change-great upgrade. I did that when I replaced the rear seal in place last year.. Ditto for the remotely mounted oil filter-though the cap that covers the original oil filter mounting point does not seal perfectly-maybe it just needs to be spun on tighter.

The paint stripping question will be resolved by the leakdown test. Good numbers mean this is just a gasketing job-engine has 4000+ hours on it, but was well maintaained. If a rebuild is warranted, then I can have a creamy white engine...

Interestingly, the oil pan is a huge source of seepage. When I looked at the pan (still attached) you could see where the pan flange had been distorted by the bolts being tightened down.It was leaking in a couple of places. Given the level of distortion to the pan flange, I don't see how it COULD NOT leak!
Starting at the blue line in the picture you can follow the wavy outline of what at one time must have been a straight edge.

S/V AMITY

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2020, 01:51:44 PM »
  That pan is warped/bent beyond redemption... will never reliably seal again.  Add a new pan + gasket to the order list.  Recommend Permatex for gooping the new gasket.  https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-82180-Maximum-Resistance-Silicone/dp/B0002UEN1U .


jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2020, 05:28:51 PM »
Yeah, that was my thinking when I posted the picture-thank you for confirming my suspicion.  Wonder where I can get a good used oil pan?

S/V AMITY

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2020, 06:04:35 PM »
A used one may be just a swap for the same problem.  Try making a fixture out of good flat hard wood such as birch to match the flange faces and gently hammer the pan flange as flat as you can get it.  It might just work.

S/V AMITY

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2020, 06:32:28 PM »
Search YouTube for "straighten bent engine oil pan".  Guy is straightening his auto transmission pan but it amounts to the same thing.

jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2020, 02:11:51 PM »
Rebuild update. Had to take a detour to get a wood stove installed in the barn so I could work without freezing...

Irwin knurled bolt extractor tool is the bees knees-removed that last stripped bolt with ease.
Have the engine broken down to bare block.  Was hoping to just reseal it, but after removing the pan it became clear that a rebuild was in order.  For all of you cold weather sailors remember you heard it here: DON'T USE STARTING FLUID-even sparingly- to start your diesel. One ear of number four piston skirt was lying in the pan.  I am certain starting fluid was the culprit.  At that point, I needed to remove the piston, so off with its head!  I now have it down to a bare block and am astonished that other than the broken skirt and and some pitting on the number three piston head (errant injector tip?) there is no apparent wear on the liners-not a scratch-they shine like mirrors-the bearings, the valves, the seats, journals on the crank and cam-all look like new.

My new straightedge, bore gauge and micrometer arrive tomorrow (love buying new tools!) so the numbers will tell definitively, but I am optimistic that the head and block will be flat-if so machine shop work required may be minimal to none. In any case the manual states the head cannot be skimmed. If cylinder liner wear is within spec I might get away with no machine shop work...This was an engine that read 4000 hours on the meter before the meter stopped and I know it pushed the boat for at least 15000 miles by the fellow I bought it from and he was not the first owner.

Also, while I had the engine in the stand I could look at the rear main seal I replaced two summers ago- no signs of leakage what so ever.  The main leak culprits were all around the area of the timing cover, which is of course next to impossible to address on our boats when the engine is installed and the oil pan.

Trans Atlantic Diesel sells a rebuild kit with liners, bearings, pistons , thrust washers , gaskets etc for $600 and change.
If I get off this cheap I may opt for a serpentine upgrade kit to lose the belt squeal at 2200 RPM and keep down the dust and possibly drive a larger alternator. Also on the wish list is the spin on primary fuel filter adapter kit-bleeding the stock filter in the can is a drag.
More updates to follow.

S/V AMITY

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2020, 02:28:28 PM »
Good write-up! 

jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2020, 09:24:27 AM »
Status update and request for advice to the mechanically literate amongst us.  I will start by saying I am an ok mechanic-rebuilt an A4 20 years ago and it is still running, so you know I can do anything if i understand the gotchas ahead of time. And the A4 looks a lot like a Perkins 4-108...
 I have the block stripped. Crank and cam out, pistons and bearings all separated, bagged and labelled as to original locations. Head obviously off. I have been meticulous and I have the shop manual. I bought a set of decent micrometers and a dial bore gauge and learned how to use them-which was actually fun.  The numbers suggest the cylinders (dry sleeves) are really not too worn-perhaps 3.127 or 3.128 when the spec is 3-125-3.126. So at most .002 out.  Some ovality, but not extreme.  No scoring on the sleeves and very little carbon at the tops of the sleeves-very slight ridge.
The crank seems brilliant-no scoring-no pits almost looks freshly ground and it seems to measure completely within spec. Bearings were spotless. One piston had a broken skirt (found it in the sump-but did not migrate) and one piston top had some pitting where it looked like an injector tip bounced around the combustion chamber)
Rebuild kit is $600. Includes pistons, rings, bearings etc. You can spec oversize if the crank had to be turned.

My question is this: is it likely I just need sleeves and the block milled?  I'm still practicing my micrometer skills-but last night the journals "miked" at exactly the manual  spec (2.248/2.485).  The shop notes mention 4-108 cranks were Tuffrided-but the machine shop says that is no longer done due to toxic concerns. Apparently Tuffriding created a harder crank surface. The dial bore gauge revealed some wear and ovality in the sleeves as mentioned-so I the shop manual also states the head can not be milled. iam thinking I may just need to have the block sleeved, reinstall the crank with the original size bearings and be good to go.
What are the thoughts of the group?  I am trying to avoid a monster machine shop bill...do I trust my micrometer skills or pay them to measure everything in addition to sleeve installation? What Have I neglected to consider??
The machine shop is quoting a 6 week lead time-that will make my schedule tight, but not impossible...
Jim
Walkabout 365 Sloop


jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2020, 09:26:56 AM »
Sorry for the upside down vertigo thing-not sure why the pics get flipped

S/V Deo Volente

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2020, 10:48:30 AM »
Have you checked bore taper? Also check ring side clearance. Both will flex and wear rings faster. I'm not an expert but have done some auto shade tree work. I have been told WD40 can be used as starting fluid for diesel, never ever use ether! Are you having the valves ground? The machine shop may give you some recommendations if you are using them for some of the work.
"S/V Deo Volente"
Pearson 365 Pilothouse
Hull #17 1980
Duluth Minnesota
Bob

jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2020, 11:10:45 AM »
Regarding taper, I measured the cylinders at three locations 1 inch 3 and 2 inches deep. Fore and aft and left to right. There is some mild ovality so Its a given that I am having new sleeves installed which will dictate ring replacement and new pistons are part of the rebuild kit. One piston had a broken skirt which caused to apparent damage.
I recall at haulout time I needed a whiff of ether to start-I think that busted the piston skirt-made a rattling sound for a few seconds before quieting down-I think the rattle was the skirt bouncing off parts before falling into the sump. Lucky I did not run all season that way or the damage might be more extensive.

jpendoley

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2020, 08:50:18 PM »
Time for an update.  after hemming and hawing, I have decided to resleeve the block. Liners were at 50% of allowable wear and I figured while I had it out and since I was installing new pistons and rings, liners might as well get replaced too. That was before I found out the machine shops are all quoting 45 day lead times for work on blocks
Having more sense than brains, I have decided to remove the dry liners myself.  after googling the subject-specifically with perkins builds, I embarked. the first approach using 3/4 fine threaded rod and machined plates (like you would use to pull big bearings) started out well-but after I got the first liner half way out the thread on the tightening nut on the threaded rod failed. Lots of tension in this project. At thread failure point I had a 16" pipe wrench attached to a four foot bar...picture attached
Plan B is to use a 10-20 ton hydraulic pump and hollow ram to pull the damn things out.  Its a little scary.
I have also heard running beads with an arc welder the length of the liners will pucker them and they will drop out-has anyone done that or know of anyone who has?  I am concerned that given the interference fit and the thinness of the liners, I would accidentally weld them to the block-that would be interesting.

Dale Tanski

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Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2020, 07:20:47 AM »
Your deep into this one now, I respect that.  I have talked to people who have used a torch to heat vertical stripes in the liner.  Typically what they do is to install the puller just like the one that you concocted and tension it up, then apply the heat .  The red hot stripes apparently relax the liner and it implodes into the bore a bit and they slide right out. 
Applying a bead of weld I'm sure would do the same thing, but if you penetrated a bit to deep you would have set the anchor. 

I also like the idea of the hollow bore hydraulic ram.  A little hydraulics go a long way compared to the inclined plane.  If you stick to the mechanical extractor method most threaded rod you buy in the wild is soft with a tensile strength around 60k psi.  McMaster Carr has threaded rod up to grade 8 which will get you in the 125k psi range and if you have a Fastenall near by they have the good stuff as well.  You may want to consider ACME threaded rod which has square cut threads typically used in mechanical jacking applications.  McMaster sells that as well.

I have also heard about using dry ice.  I assume you have a stepped disk that fits into the bore and allows you to pull from the bottom of the liner.  This closes the bottom of the bore. The concept is to tension up the puller and dump in some dry ice.  At -100F the dry ice shrinks the liner and away it goes. 

Hope all goes well.  Good luck.

Dale
"Maruska"
Pearson 365 Cutter Ketch
1976 Hull #40
Buffalo, N.Y.