Author Topic: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?  (Read 2144 times)

Dale Tanski

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2020, 02:24:52 PM »
Lots of times once the head is gone, all of the tensile loading is off of the bolt and you might just easily wind it out.  Sometimes a left handed drill will work as while the drill is drilling it unwinds what is left of the fastener.  Often times you can just take a center punch and spin the bolt by tapping on an angle with a hammer.  Rule of thumb... the harder the bolt the easier it comes out.  This is because it doesn't stretch and deform as it breaks.  If you have a welder you can weld a nut on to what's left of the bolt and the heat will help when you wind it out with the new head.

Dale
Obersheimers
Maruska
"Maruska"
Pearson 365 Cutter Ketch
1976 Hull #40
Buffalo, N.Y.

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2020, 09:37:24 AM »
Dale,
Agree with all of the above-though I do hate easy outs-if they snap you have a bigger problem. Almost hope my bolt extractor kit that I ordered does not work so I can order a MIG welder. They can be had for $160 and have always wanted one:) Worlds most expensive bolt extraction continues...
Hoping this is just a gasket replacement and general tightening up project with a valve adjustment for good measure, but willing to go for a complete rebuild if necessary.  Thinking I can post my progress for everyones amusement and get he help of wiser heads when things like this come up. Many of us have the Westerbeast-which is a great power plant if you can control the leaks.
Jim

Dale Tanski

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 911
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2020, 09:56:25 AM »
I neglected to mention that sometimes when I can't get my hands on an EZ-out (I don't own many and also not a fan) I will often take a worn out tap and grind it to a triangle shape and use that as a bolt extractor.  I tap it into the hole that I drilled into the bolt and use that as a tool to move the bolt back and forth.

Good luck...

Dale
"Maruska"
Pearson 365 Cutter Ketch
1976 Hull #40
Buffalo, N.Y.

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 432
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2020, 08:59:52 PM »
I wouldn't use easy outs on hardened bolts that are probably torqued to 60 ft lbs and left to sit for 40 years.  You are not likely to get the splines to bite anyways.  And if you break it off?........
I would weld a bolt head if I had a welder.  Otherwise just grind the head off.
Be aware that those are probably grade 6 bolts and should be matched when you replace it.
Totally arm-chair quarterbacking here in Portland in winter. :-\
www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2020, 07:53:32 PM »
Arm chair quaterbacking is the point! I need all the advice I can get. Happy to report the recalcitrant bolt yielded to my newest addition to the tool box-Irwin Extractors.  I put the 9/16 extractor on and put some leverage on and it bit hard-no slippage, but still didn't budge. I then put a long pipe on the socket handle, like four feet long-and it came out easy as pie!  This is going in the kit as amust have for knurled bolts.  Engine is on the stand-the rear seal is off (remember I replaced it last year) and all eveidence is the rear seal was not the source of the leakage. That seal will be replaced again, of course, but the forward seal area seems like it was leaking in volume. More to follow.
Jim

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 10:10:40 AM »
Next Question: Removing the injection pump.  the block needs cleaning and painting and the pump is in the way. Is it rocket science to remove the pump? I have the manual, but thought I'd ask before I study up. Also, should I send it out for servicing?

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2020, 05:33:07 PM »
Another dumb question. Let's say the leakdown test shows good compression and everything is within spec (after all, it was running fine-just leaking oil); the block is rusty in lots of places and paint is peeling. If I don't need to send the block out for machining-could I buttun up ALL openings, intake and exhaust, weep holes on pumps and soda blast the beast?  It would be nice to not scrape and wire brush as that seems to miss alot and take forever.  Somehow, it seems like a dumb idea, but thought I would ask...

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 432
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2020, 05:40:50 PM »
"Another dumb question. Let's say the leakdown test shows good compression and everything is within spec (after all, it was running fine-just leaking oil); the block is rusty in lots of places and paint is peeling. If I don't need to send the block out for machining-could I buttun up ALL openings, intake and exhaust, weep holes on pumps and soda blast the beast?  It would be nice to not scrape and wire brush as that seems to miss alot and take forever.  Somehow, it seems like a dumb idea, but thought I would ask..."

I did it with industrial degreaser and a metal scrub brush followed by ether just before spraying.  Worked well and only cost me a few hours/bucks.
www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 432
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2020, 05:51:47 PM »
"Next Question: Removing the injection pump.  the block needs cleaning and painting and the pump is in the way. Is it rocket science to remove the pump? I have the manual, but thought I'd ask before I study up. Also, should I send it out for servicing?"

The biggest issue when removing the motor is job creep.  I removed mine to replace the fuel tank and ended up overhauling most of the things that are bolted to it.  AND rewiring the engine harness.  AND replacing mounts.  AND a new damper plate.  AND a starter overhaul.  AND....
I thought it was worth it.  But I was cruising very remote parts of the South Pacific after the overhaul so wanted it to be as new as possible.  Are your going to overhaul injectors?  Cheap to get overhauled injectors online.  Entirely your call.

Removing the pump is rather simple when the engine is out.  Make sure you mark the case before removing the pump to maintain the pump timing as the retiming procedure is not fun to say the least. 
The biggest gotcha after that is contamination in the lines.  If you are going to pull the pump, send the lines in with it to have them blasted and painted.  Be clean and careful during reassembly.
There are other threads on the forum that give a step by step for pump replacement.  Good reads and you can learn from other people's (mine!) fails to save yourself bucks and heartache. 
www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 432
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2020, 05:56:13 PM »
www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2020, 06:24:20 PM »
Wayne, thanks for the link. I did hear about the timing mark or absence there of.  Since I have to take the front end apart as that seal is leaking together with the timing cover, I thought the pump might as well come off and go out for a check. The boat came with four shrink wrapped brand new injectors-but how would I know if the old installed ones are bad?. And I hear you on project creep, but the starter is easy-I'm doing the serpentine upgrade while I am at it and I might even do the walker air sep. If the leak down test is good, those costs would be minor in comparison to a full rebuild.
Love your site by the way-very inspiriing.

SVJourney

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 432
    • View Profile
    • Galley Wench Tales.  Our cruising blog
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2020, 07:00:54 PM »
"The boat came with four shrink wrapped brand new injectors-but how would I know if the old installed ones are bad?."

The way to tell is to send the old ones in to be "pop tested".  They will also do a visual inspection for erosion to the tips. 
Injectors are not that expensive. I bought them here and had a good experience: https://www.adiesel.com/departments/view/18546   
Some people say to always install new spare boat parts and pickle the old ones as your spares, cause you know they work. For instance, my boat came with a brand new heat exchanger that didn't fit and I didn't find that out till Tonga.  Bad.  In your situation, I would install the new ones and have the old ones pop tested, pickled and packaged.

Some more on job creep.  I think the worst thing is rebuilding everything then not finding out that there is a maintenance caused problem till the engine is mounted.  For instance, I pulled the pump, it tested fine, then after reinstall it leaked from a banjo fitting.  Just a piece of dirt or something. Not a big deal right?  But the banjo fitting was under the pump and so inaccessible that I had to remove the pump again to change a ten cent copper O-ring again.  Just something to keep in mind.  The age old adage that if it aint broke, don't fix it.  Something I disregard with great regularity, sometimes getting myself bit in the ass.
www.GalleyWenchTales.com is our cruising blog.

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2020, 07:22:43 PM »
I think we have similar tendencies, as in "while I'm at it I might as well" when the smartest thing to do is leave well enough alone. But I can't do that, I have to understand how things work and how they go together. Sometimes it does cause grief, but over all it gives a sense of security and self reliance.

S/V AMITY

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 375
  • 1979 #273
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2020, 08:42:40 PM »
   I'm with jpendoley.  With the engine out it'll never be easier to replace every seal you can (leaking or not).  The rust on the engine says there was a raw water leak coming from somewhere. Hoses, heat exchanger end cover caps, raw water pump...anywhere water was moving. 

  Something that strikes me is how many complaints there are of marine engines leaking oil.  No modern production engine was designed to leak oil.  My guess is that either the gasket materials used were spec'd. incorrectly or the mating parts were not torqued properly together or at some point someone decide to re-use the old gaskets. For my re-assembly projects where the component doesn't require occasional disassembly for routine maintenance such as the valve cover, I Permatex all gaskets.  Even with the valve cover gasket, I never re-use the old one.  Once a gasket is seated and heated to engine operating temp., it compresses.  Re-using it will run a high risk of leakage.  That's why most rebuild kits include fresh gaskets.

jpendoley

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: Westerbeke 40 Rebuild?
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2020, 09:18:53 AM »
I'm a noobie and knowingly open myself to humor in exchange to serious advice from all of you who have done this before.  For example: I dropped a 9/16 bolt into an exhaust port as I removed the manifold. That stopped all work while I went out to buy a telescoping magnet stick.  A real mechanic would have covered all openings with duct tape BEFORE something bad happened. I got lucky, the bolt is easily reachable, but lesson learned.

I'm surprised nobody has warned me away from blasting the block with soda or glass beads.  I have this fantasy of an engine painted snow white where all leaks are easily noticed before they become a serious problem.  Its currently a rusty, oily, paint flaking mess. Of course this would require sealing off the various exposed openings (see mistake above)-is there something really dumb about this idea :-\?