The Bottomless Bilge

[Firefly]

I saw an older thread entitled 'The 365's Achilles keel' and thought I might revive it.

I'm planning on installing a stacked-bilge pump setup (1500-2000gph above an 800gph).

Anyway, I noticed that a couple of you guys were considering filling in the bilge with concrete or epoxy.

I was thinking maybe lead (dive weights, scrap...etc.) and polyester resin (a little cheaper than epoxy) with occasional weaves of glass, to encapsulate and integrate it with the keel.

Concrete seems like a very simple solution although I'm concerned about compatability with the glass hull i.e. developing stress cracks. Also the thought of a rollover with a couple hundred pounds of loose concrete doesn't sound appealing either.

Has anyone done either of these?...something else?...any thoughts?

Stew

[kevin barber]

Has anyone ever actually heard of or experienced a problem with the deep bilge?

[ishmael]

Now that I have a stacked bilge pump set up I really have no issues with my, now dry, deep bilge.  That is until I drop a tool.  Then out comes the magnetic grabber and no problem.

Ron
S/V Matchmaker, Pearson 365 ketch Hull #311
Saint Marks, FL

[RayNWanda]

 When we bought our boat, she had been blocked up under the bilge for about a year and was cracked on both sides.  I ended up cutting the whole bottom out of the bilge and rebuilding it.
In my opinion, what cracked the boat was the blocking, rather than the design of the boat. It should have never been blocked up that way to begin with. What I found as I ground (and ground and ground) out the area was that at the front of the bilge next to the ballast, the fiberglass is about 1 1/2" thick. Toward the rear, there is about 1 1/2" on bottom, some sort of filler material (about 1"), and then another 3/4" or 1" glass on the inside. I built it all back up with roving and mat. From what I saw, it would take a hell of an impact to break that area. Usually when you break a fiberglass hull what you get is a crack, rather than a hole. If the bottom gets cracked, it is still cracked, just the filler may slow down the leak. It will still have to be repaired. If I was going to partially fill the bilge it would be to make it easier to retrieve things.
Another possible filler material is lead shot. It is available in I think 20 lb. bags wherever reloading supplies are sold. Mix it with the resin of your choice and pour it in. That would be high density fiberglass?
The magnetic grabber is good, but what works for non-magnetic stuff is a set of mechanical fingers. It is a spring loaded pickup tool. I have both and keep them handy.

[Firefly]

Thanks everyone.

Sounds like I should keep what I have, add the stacked bilge, and get a tool grabber.

Thanks again,
Stew

[slokat]

Advantage, might even be reason for this bilge design...  if your batteries are out/or some how the bilge pump doesn't come on and you are taking on rainwater, or one of the water tanks leaks, or your prop shaft drips more than it should...  can store a whole lot of water before it reaches anything that costs a lot to replace.

[EdHouston]

Keep the deep bilge but for sure install stacked pumps, its good insurance and in the scheme of things very cheap insurance at that.

Ed

S/V Moonlight Mile #110.

[kevin barber]

Yep.  It's a good thing.

[eveningebb]

Finally made it out to my boat so I could take some pictures of my bilge pump set-up.  I've got five ways to get water out of my bilge:

1.  Jabsco parmax pump mounted under the battery box in the port cockpit locker.  3/4 line plumbed to the stack with a flat screened pickup that sits on the bottom of the bilge and will get the all but about the last 1/4 inch of water out of the bilge.  This is the line on the left-hand side of the stack.  There is an inline backflow valve and large groco strainer between the pick-up and the pump.  The discharge line from the parmax pump is teed into the 1 1/8 discharge line from the MK 5 manual pump mounted in the cockpit.

2.  Rule-mate 1100 electric pump.  Mounted on the StarBoard stack.

3.  3-way valve plumbed between raw-water intake and raw-water strainer.  This allows the engine raw-water pump to discharge strained bilge water.

4.  Whale MK 5 manual hand pump mounted in the cockpit.

5.  Portable manual hand pump.

I use the Jabsco pump to clear rain water and seepage.  I've been happy with the post made out of StarBoard.  It makes it easier to clean the screen on the Rule-mate and to pull the pumps when the boat is winterized on the hard. 

For those of you in warmer climates, the pink residue on top of the Rule-mate pump is anti-freeze, since the boat's been in the water this winter.  Last few winters weren't so bad, so how bad could this one be --- three major snow storms later, about 45 or so days of ice, and another gale tomorrow  ........  Oh well.

[Firefly]

I like the 3-way valve on the raw water inlet...definitely going to add that

[jim]

I'm getting ready to add a stacked bildge pump on OHANA. I've added an air conditioner and drained the condensate into the bildge. The stacked bildge pump will help give me the warm fuzzie that the boat is safe.
I am wondering if it might be ok to drain the new bildge pump( stacked pump ) into the cockpit. I think I need a separate drain from the other pump. If it drained into the cockpit  I would know if there was a problem below.
What do you all think of this idea , or should I put it overboard?
Thanks
Jim

[Dale Tanski]

Jim,
For what is is worth, I just got done reading the ISAF (International Safety Federation) offshore safety rules for an upcoming overnight event in our area this summer.  I remember specifically reading that a bilge pump discharge cannot connect to a cockpit drain. I don't recall it saying anything about dumping in the cockpit, just the drain issue. 

On a practical note, the more or less semi-constant pump out of A/C condensate in the cockpit may encourage algae growth.  Just thinking out loud.

Dale

[jim]

Thank you , never thought about algea growth. maybe the condensate should go in a pump similar to a shower sump?

[kevin barber]

I tapped into one of the deck drain hoses for my secondary/ stacked bilge pump.  Those drain out through thru-hulls above the water line.  Never tap into a drain/scupper line that terminates below the waterline.

[rnblnchrd]

I hauled out last week and my ballast area sounds 'empty' or hollow. anyone know what is or is surpose to be in the 'ballast' ?
Capt Ron
s/v Pow-Mia
on a 365 ketch # 288