Paragon SAOD Problems.

[Henri Hali]

Well Guys and Gals, it finally happened.
Last Thursday I was underway to Montaugh on the South fork of Long Island from Branford Connecticut, for a four day trip.
When we departed, I thought Windrider was a bit sluggish as we cleared the mouth of the river. Without thought, I increased the engine to 2800 rpm and the best I could do was four knots. I rationalized it by thinking the hull must be pretty well covered with growth and in need of a good scrubbing.

(Several weeks before, as my brother was driving the boat I noticed an intermittant exhaust like odor in the cockpit. I rationalized that away by assuming since the wind was coming off the stern, I was smelling some exhaust fumes from the engine.)

About eight knots out, (the engine running the whole time) I again noticed the odor. Shortly after that one of my shipmates called up from the cabin saying there appeared to be smoke in the cabin. That really got my attention!
Sure enough, a gray haze was wafting out of the cabin.

I opened the engine compartment, the paint on the transmission was several shades darker than when I had painted it last year. The transmission was to hot to touch.
I shut off the engine, checked the oil level in the transmission (Using a pot holder) and found the oil badly burned but at an acceptable level.

SeaTow brought us back to Branford.
Yesterday I took off the cover.The oil is burned black. It looks like engine oil long past it's prime.
I turned the shaft by hand and nothing was binding.
Turned on the engine ran it forward and reverse. The boat moved in the right directions.
Here's where I need some help.
Any suggestions as to what I should look for inside the transmission?
Can anyone recommend a source to repair or replace the transmission?

Windrider is a 1980 365 with original Westerbeke 40 and Paragon SAOD transmission.

Hope you guys can come through for me again.

Henri Hali

[EdHouston]

Henri

The previous owner of my boat had the transmission rebuilt I seem to remember seeing the invoice $1500.00 rings a bell. I am on a business trip in Los Angeles at the moment should be home at the weekend I could try and dig out the invoice if you wish it should have the name of the shop that did the work on it somewhere.

Ed

S/V Moonlight Mile. #110

[Henri Hali]

Hi Ed:
Thanks for the reply.
Windrider was put on the hard yesterday and I removed all of the bolts connecting it to the engine.
Later today I'll bring a mallot and 2X4 and free it.
I look forward to getting the name from you.

Henri Hali
Windrider

[Scott]

Henri,
While you are in there you should take a look at the plate connecting the flywheel to the transmission (the name escapes me).  If the springs are loose, it is time to replace.  It is a very easy task and the plate should cost around $60.
Scott

[Scott]

I think it's called the damper plate

[Henri Hali]

Scott:
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'll have a look at it.

[Dale Tanski]

There is an outfit in Ohio that I got parts and a manual from.  I can't recall the name and the manual is on the boat.  If I remember I will look into it next time I am aboard and let you know.
Dale Tanski

[SailingSeaDragon]

On the topic of the "Damper Plate", I removed Sea Dragon's this week and picked up a new one this morning from American Transmission in Edgewater, MD (price $222.00)... The springs are so loose in the plate I removed that I can use it as tambourine (very musical). Clearly a project way overdue....

http://www.americantransmissionmd.com/

I have taken photos of each step and will document lessons learned on the "Project Page" on sailingseadragon (most likely this weekend). The project is easy enough except for wrestling with the 108 lb transmission in a very tight space.

I am also replacing the seals on the V-drive as soon as I can figure out what the model is in Sea Dragon. I will post that project as well, if I make any progress.

A little off topic... but what the heck.
Garner

[Henri Hali]

With all of the replies I've gotten so far, I'm almost glad my tranny decided to act like  pot bellied stove!
My thanks to each of you again.

I Removed the Transmission without a hitch. (It really gets easier when you've done it four or five times!)
I solved the "wrestling match", Garner mentioned two extractions ago by rigging up a boom vang on my main boom and securing some lines around the transmission before the introduction of my mallet and piece of 2/by. It works great. One substantial tap on the housing, and the tranny popped loose. I then just raised it through the hatch and lowered it into an old milk carton for the final drop to terra firma. (Hope this helps someone else.)
Now a couple of new questions as a result of your input.
What exactly does the "Damper Plate" do, and how do I remove it?
Looking at it and the mating end of the transmission, there is a shaft that passes through the Damper and nothing else. The rest of that end of the transmission is a solid steel plate. By the way, the springs in my Damper are also very loose.

Gardner, as to your Walter Vee Drive. I visited them in 2002 (My how time flies!). They were able to find my model number by giving them the numbers on my boat. They had records of the original installation. Mine is a RV-10,200S15 installed 7/79. Their Phone is 201-656-654. Really nice folks!
Dale, Glad to see you as part of my support team. The company name and manual would be a big help.
I'm digressing from the topic, but perhaps you all can guide me in how to submit some photos of several projects I've done that may be of interest to the members. I am a computer idiot with a capital "I". I've managed to store them on my computer, but that's a far as I've been able to go.
A friend and I designed (make that modified) a frame for my bimini that allows me to lower it without messing with the mizzen boom. It may be a solution for others.
I also relocated all of my electronics from the port bulkhead onto my pedestal guard. This left me with four dead Datamarine instruments glaring at me. I finally solved that by "hiding the holes in plain sight", by installing a Bomar hatch. I've got photos of that too.
Please note, I have to prefice all of this by stating Dale is a Rembrant and I'm a chimp when it comes to restoration. (I'm Dutch, hense the analogy!)
Looking forward to your responses.

Henri Hali
Windrider

[SailingSeaDragon]

Henri,

Thank you for the information on the V-drive... I will call them today.

As for the "damper plate", it softens the shock between your engine and transmission when you engage the transmission. It is basically two (2) plates connected by six (6) springs. One plate is bolted to the engine's fly wheel and the other is connected to the transmission by the spline.  

The Damper Plate is attached to the fly wheel with 5 allen screws. To remove it you will need a 3/16 allen wrench. Go to your local hardware store and purchase ($3.50) a 3/16 allen wrench socket as you will need a longer reach and more leverage than you will be able to get with standard allen wrenches.

I will try to post some pictures this afternoon.

Garner

[SailingSeaDragon]

I have posted pictures of the Westerbeke W40 Damper plate... More to follow with details.

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/DamperPlate.htm

Garner

[wedelstein]

It sounds like your forward cluch plates are slipping. When they do they make alot of friction which makes heat. There is a set screw that locks a slotted nut on the planetary gearpack. It gets a little dark in there so it is hard to see. Rotate the gear to find this screw. It uses a straight blade. when you loosen the screw the slotted nut can be screwed in a few notches. This puts more pressure on the cluch pack. You will notice the forward detent on the handle will be a little more resistance and solid. Too much and you will not be able to put it in forward easily.  the referse must be ballanced against the forward. It is adjusted with a spring locked screw across the band around the gear pack. In reverse a tapered draw plated is pulled against the reverse adjustment screw and band. When applied it locks the band form turning thus making the planetary gears work.

[Henri Hali]

Hi Wedelstein:

Thanks for the input.

Now that the tranny is on my work bench it's easy to see all of the items you mentioned. After I clean up the burned oil, I'll fidgit with the adjustments you suggested.

Since my last posting I've removed the front end plate to get a clearer look at things. After removing it I noticed the shaft wabbled a bit in the front end plate bearing. Is this acceptable, or should I replace this bearing and for that matter the bearing at the other end? I'm not looking for more work, but on the other hand.......

I guess the next and perhaps the most important thing I need to get my arms around is how can I tell if the clutch plates were cooked or not.

I've been using my Westerbeke Tech Manual Edition 6 published June 1978 as a guide to get me through this labyrinth of gears and bearings and God knows what other stuff. I would not be able to talk to you guys without it.

If there is an interest in getting this on the site I'd be happy to oblige. I would however need even more guidance to accomplish that task.

Henri
SV Windrider 

[RayNWanda]

 The damper plate does absorb shock when you engage the transmission, but it also has another important function that is not so obvious. It is on the job anytime the engine is running, especially in gear. In our engines, 2 cylinders fire every revolution, 180 degrees apart. The firing stroke can be a fairly violent event depending on throttle setting. It is mostly smoothed out to an acceptable level by the rotating mass of the engine, ie- flywheel, crankshaft, ect- But some of the pulse gets transmitted out of the engine. So the engine output is not smooth, but a series of rotary pulses. The damper plate absorbs and smoothes out the leftover shock of the firing pulse to protect the transmission gears from being hammered by the engine.

[SailingSeaDragon]

Ray,

Very important point....

Garner