Roller furler is jammed!

[Jordan]

As we move more into sailing mode, we're evaluating more. We know we don't have a headsail. I'm keeping an eye out for one that will fit from https://www.secondwindsails.com/ or http://www.pineapplesails.com/usedsail/index.htm. But now that we moved to checking the roller furling, it didn't move more than an inch.
So we started researching it. It seems so simple! There is a headstay/forestay, and around that is an extension aka a foil. That contains the groove for the luff tape of the headsail. The drum on the bottom just allows remote spinning of the foil. So we know the drum isn't siezed. But looking closer, the foil is jammed up at the top. The only movement comes from the bend in the metal of the foil.

I'm planning on going up the mast this weekend (better half wanted more backup the first time), and I'll try to find where it's stuck. I'll spray some wd-40 and try to break it loose.

Is there anything I need to be aware of? I am a bit concerned that the forestay is original, since the PO said she got rid of the headsail because it was dry rotted. But I'm not sure.

[S/V Deo Volente]

Do you know the brand of furler? Are you sure it has a headstay under the foil? Pearson used a couple furlers that replaced the headstay, Stearns Dynafurl and Hyde Streamstay.

[Jordan]

Do you know the brand of furler? Are you sure it has a headstay under the foil? Pearson used a couple furlers that replaced the headstay, Stearns Dynafurl and Hyde Streamstay.

I don't, and there are no numbers on it. Pictures attached. With no spinning at the top, and now that the rain is stopped, I think I'm going up the mast. I believe the technical term for what my plan entails is coming described as "wiggling shit around and see if it works". The link to the photos are here:

http://imgur.com/a/OSuBxau

[Jordan]

Do you know the brand of furler? Are you sure it has a headstay under the foil? Pearson used a couple furlers that replaced the headstay, Stearns Dynafurl and Hyde Streamstay.

Hmm. No seams in the foil, so I suspect you might be right. I might not have a head stay.

[Jordan]

I think it's the Hyde Streamstay One https://www.rigrite.com/furling/hyde/hyde.php#Parts%20Breakdown

Based on the pictures of the drum.

[S/V Deo Volente]

If you can read the numbers on the bearings they are available for a lot less than rig-rite. I have a dynafurl and have replaced the bearings twice. While I am in fresh water, I packed them heavily with grease last time, about 14 years ago, still smooth.

[Jordan]

All right. Research has been started. Thank you so much @S/V Deo Volente. The model names you gave provided me with enough info to identify what I have.

Allow me to take you all on a magical journey of learning. And then I'll lay out my plan, with the hopes that people will pick it apart, and maybe I'll see something I missed.

I feel like I should change the name of this thread to "Hyde Streamstay roller furler halyard swivel assembly is seized". Because I think that's what is going on. Once I was able to identify it, I matched up those photos I posted earlier (and the lower drum itself), and saw that it looks pretty damn close to the Hyde Streamstay One.

After poring over the documents from that link, I found that the swivel assembly has its own set of bearings in the housing. I found some troubleshooting steps here

I've this OLD Hyde furler on my mizzen which I believe to be some version of the Hyde Streamstay One Solid Rod Furling System.
The Halyard Swivel gets frozen often (up or down, no difference) & unable to twist (roll). A little spray lube & a tap or two w/ a hammer & I'm good for another few months.
Seems as though the bearings, bushings & other internal parts are fine, it just needs to be lubed?? As a mizzen furler it is not a simple matter to bring down. I use the mizzen rarely, so it's usually frozen when I want to.
Can not find info on lube, other than grease??? there are so many greases.

Essentially, the answer was High Heat grease probably. But the idea of tapping it with a hammer to release it got me thinking. That means I can go up the mast, hit it with a hammer, and see if that frees it up for a few more weeks/months/days of service. Another thing it could be is that the top assembly somehow got tangled in the halyard. I don't think that's the case from looking at it through my binos, though. It looks clean. So now I'm not so sure what to do. I need to get a spinnaker halyard, and run that up the mast, along with checking the mast light and the bow light (which aren't working), and eventually installing an anemometer (which I don't have yet). I could got up and hit it with a hammer, and then that will let me know if it is the bearings. But to repack those, I need to take off the forestay. And I'm pretty sure this is original, so it's a piece of metal that has been exposed to the elements almost full time for the last 43 years. I remember reading something around here from Dale I think talking about the new roller furling units. And I think I could probably find a used one that works. But then I would need to install a new forestay, and even though it seems like a simple job, it seems like a big one that I could expensively screw up. But then again, these units are allegedly bullet proof (even though I'm not sure what the lifespan is on the metal). From rigrite:

Unmatched, Proven Reliability: For almost 50 years the Hyde System has been in production, virtually unchanged from its original design. Thousands of boats all over the world are still sailing with their original Hyde system, many are entering their 4th or 5th decade of continuous service.

Repacking would be an option if I was confident in the unit being as old as it is. The PO removed the dryrotted headsail at some point in the past year, and nothing else has been on it since. And while I was previewing this post, I see that S/V Deo Volente posted, which reminded me of this little gem just in case I do rebuild it.

After 31 years of service it was time to rebuild my furling system. I found the web site that handles the rebuild kit, but the cost was out of sight. So being the do it yourself type I took the system down and disassembled the lower drum. This in itself was a bear, the bearings were completly gone and everything was corroded together. After lots of WD40 I got the thing apart. I have a size #9 unit and the terminal ends bearing replacement kit runs just under $370.00. I took what was left of the bearings to montion Ind. and had the parts matched.
Bearings INA part number 6002-2RS, 2 required
Oil seal SKF part number 6741, 2 required.
I had replace the upper terminal bearing about 20 years ago and it was still in good shape. This is the only part I had trouble finding until I used metric measurment. I found several on the net (FAG has this item for $30.00) using ID of 15mm, OD of 32 mm and a height of 12mm. Seeing that mine was still in good condition I chose not to replace it. My total cost was $27.31 for parts and $4.89 for high pressure grease form Bumper to Bumper. Next time I will not wait 30 years for a rebuild, I think once every 5 years a relube is all I'll need.

Advice greatly welcomed. Thanks everyone.

[Dale Tanski]

Do not take "going up the mast" lightly.  How old are your halyards?  If you don't know replace them.  Visual inspection will only tell you about the condition of the external jacket, but what about the condition of the core which is the load bearing portion of the line. Many riggers will no longer go aloft without a man lift as it is just not worth the risk hanging from a thread. 
We seldom get called to a boat that is well maintained and equipped, its always the boats that need work.  We have seen halyards that "look OK" fail with only a few hundred pounds of load.  Always use two halyards.  One as the primary lifting halyard and one as the backup.  Never allow any notable amount of slack in the backup, if the main halyard fails or slips the shock load can part a questionable backup halyard.  Do not depend on the self tailing portion of the winch, always utilize a cleat. 

You should always do a drop test.  This involves dead falling from a standing position on the deck while wearing the bosuns chair. We had a customer go aloft to change out their mast head bulb.  On the first trip up they retrieved the old bulb then stopped at the shop for a new bulb.  Knowing the general condition of their boat, we quizzed them about their halyards and safety protocol mentioning the drop test.  That customer stopped by latter in the day telling the story of doing the drop test on the same halyard they had been up the mast earlier only to have it part.  The 2 ft drop to the deck was painful but nothing like the 40ft drop that could of been.

NEVER take anything for granted.  Masthead sheave assembly serviceable or under load will the sheaves stop rotating and now the halyard has to slide adding substantial pulling loads on the halyard?  How about the winches you are going to trust your life on?  When is the last time they were serviced?  Dogs and dog springs working or at some moment is the drum going to freewheel in the wrong direction?  Let's hope you are not using a $30 floating plastic winch handle.  Any grinder can snap one of those off just winching in the jib.  Is the locking mechanism functional on your "good" handle? 

What are the condition of the fasteners that secure the winch?  Are they powder in the deck structure where you cant see them? Hopefully your halyard is long enough to utilize your primary winches.  No one is going to winch you to the masthead on the stock #16 main halyard winch on the mast. Take the time to rig a smooth lead.  An over wrap here could be fatal.  Are the turning blocks any good or is any one of those going to part. 
The more help the better. One strong one winching.  One tailing.  One keeping the backup halyard winched and cleated with no one moving about the boat.

I would never go aloft in a borrowed bosuns chair unless it appeared new.  Even then a close inspection is in order.  What chemicals were stored in the same locker with the chair and what did they do to the fabric or stitching.  I would also never loan out a chair as you are liable.  A hard bottom chair is best with pockets to hold tools and supplies.  Stuff dangling off of lanyards can become stuck in the rig and dangerous.  A good chair costs $250, something you will have for a long long time. Always tie the lifting halyards onto the chairs lifting rings, NEVER rely on a snap shackle.  You can utilize the shackle as a backup but we wrap rigging tape around the release mechanism. 

And now for the last story which appeared in one of the professional magazines we receive as a retailer several months ago. A gentleman home built a 35 footer over a period of many many years, a true labor of love. On the long awaited day, the boat made the harrowing trip down to the waterfront and was ceremoniously launched.  Latter that day the mast was stepped and the owner was winched aloft to attach his masthead wind transducer.  Something went wrong and he fell to the deck and his death, never even sailing the boat.

Safety is no accident...

Dale
Obersheimers
Maruska Hull #40

[SVJourney]

If you can read the numbers on the bearings they are available for a lot less than rig-rite. I have a dynafurl and have replaced the bearings twice. While I am in fresh water, I packed them heavily with grease last time, about 14 years ago, still smooth.

You don't really need to be able to read the bearing numbers.  Any bearing supply house worth its salt will be able to identify new bearings just by measuring OD ID and width of the old ones.  I always suggest that first for replacement bearings.  Many times you can save 80%.

+1 on Dale's comment.  USE a safety line!  DO NOT use the spin halyard as your primary.  This is the perfect time to run a new main halyard before you climb.  (I friggin HATE climbing the mast!)

[Jordan]

Dale, you're one scary dude. Very glad you chimed in. Didn't go up. I've got some halyards to replace, and also a topping lift or two. More later.

In the meantime, Dale, I've read your recommendations for a furler system. Should I upgrade, or replace it, and why?

[Jordan]

So we're getting it rebuilt. The pros at JC Marine (amazing company to work with so far, FYI) went up while I was at work. They used the existing halyards, along with a safety line, and brought up some line ran as the spinnaker halyard, and used that to drop the Streamstay. I did get one brand new 90' length of 7/16 Sta-Set Double Braid, which is long enough to replace whatever breaks next. I got 30% off at West Marine, and felt like hot shit. And then I googled about, and found that I can get a 300' spool for about $15 more than I paid with this "awesome deal". Live and learn. I think I might do one of those, but that's down the road a bit. I also got a 6 foot length of 6mm Dyneema, because I snapped the weird twine that was holding down the mizzen traveler.

Apparently, the riggers actually looked at this boat before, and just sent me over their quote from then. Plus MXT showed me some photos they took of the lower shrouds up top, and they are cracked. I'll try to include those photos. The quote is just over 40% of the purchase price, and half of that alone is labor. So obviously my initial thought is to find a machine shop, and see what it would take to do it myself. It'd save a lot of money, and from what I've seen in passing, I'm pretty confident in my ability to do it, albeit slowly. On top of that, knowing how to jury rig the...well, rig, is very high up on my list of emergency repairs to be prepared for. But as I may have mentioned elsewhere, I'm currently and temporarily in a position where it is more efficient to outsource some of these jobs that have a learning curve. I'm mentally capped with everything I'm doing. So I am actually leaning towards just paying them. I might even have them update some stuff, since there was a comment about the turnbuckles not being made anymore (heard second hand). I'm feeling like it's worth it. I just don't know enough right now, and my time is much better spent actually working, and earning good money while I can still purchase this stuff. And hell, if that gets her in better shape than she would be, even better.

We're not setting aside money for "a next boat". We're not setting aside money for "after". And we are understanding what our priorities are, and adjusting accordingly. Things we would have scoffed at 3 months ago are a part of life now. And you know what? I like it.

Doing some major electrical work, especially considering the fact that I tried starting this project before, and got a bit of a reality check from Dale, showing me how much I didn't know. But I'll put that in it's own thread.