365 Ketch - Hull 141

[Jordan]

Hey there folks!! I have to say that I'm absolutely stoked to be here. I joined and commented a little while ago, but transitioning to boat life involves a lot of logistics (as I'm sure you are all aware), and they were stressing me out.

First, allow me to introduce myself. My name (as may be obvious) is Jordan. I'm a 35 year old Software Engineer by trade. The much better half is known on forums as MXT. She's a bit older than I am, and we've been together for 11 years last January. I did have about 5 "lost years", where I kind of fell apart completely. The end result of that was to leave Colorado in August of 2019. I flipped a coin, choosing between East and West coast of the US. West coast it was. However, MXT said it'd probably be better in Florida. She was going to follow me on this hair-brained adventure, and has fully adopted it, so I agreed. After lots of looking, in March, we purchased the boat known as KAPALA. So yeah, we bought a boat literally weeks after a pandemic was declared. KAPALA is a 1977 Pearson 365 Ketch, Hull #141. During the ~6 months of boat shopping in earnest (I had to find a job and a place to stay), Pearsons weren't really on our list. We were really eyeing the S2 11C (36' center cockpit) that seemed to hit all the boxes we had identified. We looked at a Catalina 30' first. Doable, but no room for our bikes (we are from Colorado, and she followed me out here with our bikes and a Nissan Versa worth of stuff - everything else was given away or sold), so we adjusted our length guidelines up to 38'. We looked at a few Hunters, a Jenneau, a Benneteau Pilothouse, and a few others.

But it was a single day that started the journey that wound up with me writing this from the cockpit of our boat. We broke down the boats we were interested in, used some Google Maps APIs to identify how far away each boat was, and grouped them so that we could see as many as we could on each trip. One grouping was about 2 hours North of Hollywood, Florida (where we rented a week by week place with free A/C and internet). There were 3 boats in that location, and the evening before, we had confirmation from all 3 owners. We woke up early, made some breakfast, and head out. We met the first guy, with a Pearson 365 Ketch (it may have even been a '77). Seeing a boat without a quarter berth was surprising, and we liked it. But this boat was at the higher end of our budget, plus there was no prop installed. While we were at the Marina, the boat next to us head out for a day of sailing. Also, one of the other 2 boats cancelled (as seems to happen in Florida), and when I told the next guy of our opened schedule, he suggested sailing (thanks Bruce!!). We agreed. He rowed out to a Pearson 35 on the hook. Besides Sunfish (which we learned how to sale a couple of weeks prior...followed by joining the Gulfstream Sailing Club right before coronavirus shut down the meetings) and theoretical knowledge (meh, I suppose some sailing on the Chatfield Reservoir in Colorado and Lake McConaughy in NE as a teen), I had no experience. I told this all to Bruce, and he proceeded to walk us through the steps required, and then we sailed. It didn't take long after the sail that we decided that boat wouldn't work for us. We saw 32' boats that had a layout that would work for us, but the Pearson 35 seemed too small. The funny thing was that each boat we saw thereafter was compared to the Pearson 365 in the marina. It was weird, but we felt the same way (granted, for me, sailing the 35 was my anchor, and the beam and salon on the 365 was hers). We kept looking. We drove further and further away. Trips to the keys, and we were planning a multi-day trip to the other coast, with about 10 boats to look at. But MXT noticed something. A boat we had looked at before (but our of our budget) that was close just dropped its price. She looked good! A Pearson 365 Ketch quite literally a 10 minute drive away from our sublet. And the boat was at a Marina we had looked at previously, and considered too expensive.

You know how they say that one buys a boat with their heart, and not their brain? Well, I kept waiting for it to happen, with every intention of smooshing down those feelings. It turns out it was more subtle than that. We'd been comparing boats to the earlier 365 we saw without being able to definitively say why. And when we stepped on board KAPALA, well, it just felt good. Not overwhelming, just good. It seemed like a good place. And considering our goal is to do a lot of off-grid cruising, a good place as our home seemed like a great idea.

Now, I've had this draft in progress for more than a week, but didn't complete it. Boat jobs took over. There are some major issues we're currently tackling, and I wanted to ask advice. But without a bit of background, I didn't feel right about it (that's my own thing, I know).

I'll make specific threads with specific questions relating to what we're tackling, but a quick look at the Effin' To Do List (this is what we've named the list of stuff to do...based on Brave or Stupid) shows that right now, I need to build out a map of the electrical systems, map the plumbing system (she's only got 2 of the 3 water tanks), I need to figure out how to get up the masts (currently, we're thinking bosun's chair with a ladder - better half is not okay lifting me up on her own...we may just find someone else to lend an extra hand). I need to install spreader lights, check the mast light that doesn't seem to turn on, and run the line for the flags from the main spreader. The mizzen doesn't even have a halyard, and I need to figure out how to run it. We have a Nature's head composting toilet, and I'm debating plumbing a pump to the liquids container to tie in with the head sink outlet. Currently, a roller furling is installed, but I don't know if one of the two extra sails I've found will seat in the roller furler (or even how to setup a roller furler). We have an uber temporary bimini, with good fabric, but a weak structure. I've been trying to figure out how to design a dodger/bimin that doesn't get in the way (this current one will not allow a full rotation on the aft-most winch for the mizzen...I think). I still haven't figured out what I want, but I'm thinking of converting the wire lifeline from the aft assembly to the first stanchion will be the best framework (plus it would be cool). Again, I am going to be posting more specific questions, but I really wanted to get an introduction done.

Oh, and this boat will be rebranded, and I'm planning on documenting her (again...she used to be in the 80s) with the USCG.

So very glad to be here, both on this forum, and in the cockpit, with a rum in one hand.

[S/V AMITY]

Welcome!
Did you have a marine surveyor do a pre-purchase survey?

[Jordan]

We did an in water one, but not a full one. It's planned that we'll do an entire survey in a year when we haul her out.

[Jordan]

My priorities have shifted. The bimini and the solid rails around the back are super appealing, but the truth is that we got this boat to sail to places, drop the hook, and live there. I want to find the sail plan that works for every point of sail, safe, comfortable, and efficient. And I don't want to design a bimini without knowing how the mizzen boom moves.

Which brings me to one of two of the high priority projects. I'm currently preparing to pore over the documentation (and waiting for my binos to arrive) and figuring out the sail plan. Somewhere in our documents is the email of the guy who's taken her out over the past year, and I'll reach out to him. For example, right now I'm beginning to suspect that the missing mizzen halyard is disguising itself as the mizzen topping lift. I have ideas though, and I'll post here about it once I dig deeper (although your experiences are super welcome... Someone posted an amazing thing about sailing ketches).

But right now, refrigeration is the priority. Currently we have one of the mini-fridges that runs on shore power. It kind of works for as long as we are at a marina, but it's not sustainable. Boat refrigeration is tricky! We're leaning towards one of the dometic or Engel types. I can't figure out a good way to use the existing ice box to install a cooling plate with less work. The rough plan now is to remove the existing icebox and build in scaffolding for one of those. We really want a big freezer (and I want ice for everything... Seriously, fuck the Florida heat). Granted, the freezer is about food storage, not ice.

More details this week, since this forum doesn't seem to more quickly.

You folks are awesome!

[S/V Legacy]

Welcome!

[Dale Tanski]

Jordan,
Nice to have you board.  Your enthusiasm is contagious.  I am sure you will have many questions along the way and we will all do our best to answer them.  Best to live with the boat for a bit before you dive in.
Dale Tanski
Maurska Hull #40
Cutter Ketch
Buffalo NY

[Jordan]

Well, I have a bosun's chair now. The better half wants to get a ladder too before she'll winch me up. We'll see what happens with that.

[Jordan]

Oh dear lord. I started creating a wiring diagram for the boat. Cleaned out the port side cockpit locker and jumped on in. Spilled a bit of oil, but that's because I haven't cleaned the pump used (I'm assuming) to change said oil. That was annoying, but it was just from the outside of the bag I put it in during the inventory. Stupid me, but that's okay. Now, I found a bunch of wires leading from the battery aft. I took the opportunity to do a deep clean (turns out a shop vac is super handy). But it's Florida, so it was hot. It took about 10 minutes in the locker before I slipped, and bashed my foot against the through-hole. Decent 2" long (but shallow) cut across the foot. Grr. Well, blood and sweat and all that. So I followed the wires to the lazarette. Cleaned that thing out (FYI, way more comfortable than the port locker). Tracked stuff back to the charger. And then the rabbit hole started. One of the super soon things I'm going to do is upgrade to Lithium Ion batteries. But I need a way to charge them from shore power (which I will hopefully have access to for the next 7 months). So I'm about to pull the trigger on this inverter/charger. The manual seems to show a pretty straight forward install, and it can charge my current battery, as well as the bank I'll install (I may go way too far there, but we'll see).

Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I didn't complete the wiring diagram yet, since I need to jump into the starboard locker and track all of that down. But honestly, I cannot figure out why there are so many wires!! Let's assume that each item has a switch that goes back to a source, which would mean that for each thing that uses electricity would require 3 cables. I'm pretty sure I have way more than that. This is going to be a hell of a weekend. Anyone else revamped the electrical system?

[Dale Tanski]

Jordan,
DC circuits use only 2 wires (black & red or black & yellow, black being positive) and AC circuits use 3 wires (hot (black), neutral (white) and ground (green)).  You will find other colors aboard most boats from the factory as typically they ran individual wires instead of duplex and triplex wire and needed the colors so as not to be confusing.  From my experience with most old boats a tear out and rewire is the way to go.  The key there is a good understanding of what you want and need and a complete layout before you start.

Dale
Maruska

[Dale Tanski]

Inverter/Charger
1) 3000 watts is a lot of power, after a microwave or a coffee pot (both less than 1500 watts and you can run them one at a time) what are you going to power?
2) I have been in the business for many years and never heard of GOPower.  Do your homework. There are many companies that are involved with solar and RV applications but marine is a whole different animal. Corrosion and the bonding cirsuit on boats is key. Look for ABYC certifications (american boat yacht company).
3) The GOPower unit only has a 100 amp charging system. The battery bank required to supply 3000 watts needs to have that power replaced and 100 amps could be a bit shy for short term recharges (tie up late leave early in the morning situation).
4) Check out Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 or the 2012.  Xantrex has a fantastic service network on each coast and make a wonderful product.

Dale
Obersheimer Sailor Supply
Maruska

[Jordan]

@Dale Yeah, they were mostly colors I understood, but the number of them is baffling. But that's why I need to do a full wiring Diagram. Those Xantrex's look pretty nice, but I did wind up actually pulling the trigger on that GoPower. I initially got the idea from the one installed on S/V Curiousity (Gone with the Wynns), and when I saw the power and price, I started looking specifically for people with that model, and found overwhelmingly positive (there were some negatives like there always are, but I felt pretty good about it) use-cases.

Oh, and please don't take this as a way of saying your feedback is not appreciated. I just want to explain my thinking, because I'm not quite in the "boat mode". I am constantly at risk of forgetting that it's a boat, and not a drop in house replacement, plus I'm a nerd, so I have a tendency to overcomplicate things just because it's cool. As far as the 100A charging capability, I'm actually okay with that. My goal is to generate most of my power with solar (and possibly a wind generator to go on the mizzen mast if I don't want a radar), so I'm not planning on discharging the batteries and then going back to the dock to charge. That is what you meant right?

Now, the 3000W. That is a lot. My goal with this is that it will run (for now) our electric pressure cooker, a kettle (it's technically an electric percolator, but it makes crap coffee and I have a french press), and our microwave. We are getting better at the habit of using electricity a bit more efficiently (only one working outlet right now makes that kind of necessary), but I have some pretty demanding tech for my field (essentially a server). Also, I will sheepishly admit to wanting to have the option to run the A/C on the hook (at least for a little while).

That being said, I do have 2 12V fans coming, so I think we'll start experimenting a bit with airflow. I know there is a method of generating a breeze, and I do have a windscoop for the forward hatch. Apparently having the companionway hatch open with a dodger creates an interesting vacuum effect. But I don't have a dodger yet, and I'm in a Marina in Florida. It's really hot, and since we are facing about 30°, the way the sun moves across the boat and the fact that it's summer means that no matter what I try, it's too ridiculously hot for me. I wind up retreating to the sealed cabin pumping AC directly on me.

I'm kind of guessing what I'm going to need at anchor, but I'm totally capitalizing on the fact that I do have access to shore power for now. I will admit that I'm kind of beginning to feel a sense of urgency, in getting her kitted out. I keep seeing these reports about the Hurricane activity models for this year, and I want to be able to run if need be (I think worst case scenario would be sailing offshore quite a bit, heaving to, and riding it out...but there are a lot of other options too).

Thanks a bunch for your response!

[Dale Tanski]

120 volts divided by 12 volts = 10.  So... the inverter ratio is 10 to 1.
P = I x E   Power = Amps x Volts,  So if you use 3000 watts through your inverter and you divide that by 120 volts that equals 25 amps on the 120 volt AC side.  Using that 10 to 1 ratio the draw on the batteries on the DC side would be 250 amps.  To properly wire the output of your 3000 watt inverter you will need #0000 copper wire. #000 wire only is rated to carry 239 amps for power service.
You may have a desire to live on the hook, but to do so you will need a suitable electrical system.   Feeding a 120 vac electric pressure cooker, coffee pot, microwave, computer and cooling the boat with air conditioning while on the hook through a 3000 watt inverter is a huge undertaking.  I also suspect you will want refrigeration. 
I would recommend you do a realistic load study to determine your battery bank requirements and replenishment requirements.
Dale

[Jordan]

Oh, that makes a bit more sense. I hadn't even thought of the wire gauge between the batteries on full draw. I kind of dismissed it, considering that I haven't built out my battery bank yet. I just wanted to make sure that wasn't a weak point. The math works out.

I emailed to cancel the order, and I'll follow up with a call in the morning. Damn. Am I really going to have to pick every part before I do anything? I had a kill-a-watt, but the microwave got turned on with it connected, and fried it. I guess it'll be a better option to spend the $20 on a new kill-a-watt, and figure out what my needs are.

Pretty sure I owe you a beer at least.

Any resources specifically you'd recommend?

[Dale Tanski]

Jordan,
Most items will have nameplates right on the item that indicates what the unit requires for voltage and what it will draw in terms of amperage.  Those will be solid numbers that you can use. 
Some equipment, typically equipment that has a motor in it, will have what is known as inrush current. This is the amperage draw that the device uses when it first starts. Depending on the item, the amperage during start could be twice the rated amperage once it is running.  The good news is that inrush typically lasts only milliseconds but still must be accounted for. If the starting energy isn't made available, the unit will not start or perhaps be damaged.  If you look at the specifications on the GOPower unit (and any good unit) it listed the surge capacity. This is its ability to handle the surge and for how long it can do it.  Theoretically, the wiring size should be adjusted to handle the inrush surge if the unit starts often.
A comprehensive energy study will take into effect the power draw of each and every item on the vessel and for how long that device will be used.  As an example, if your anchor light draws 5 watts and it is on for 10 hours every night, 5 watts x 10 hrs= 50 watt hrs.  Let's say at the end of the typical 24 hours, you consume 1030 watt hrs out of your batteries, that is the number you have to replace back into your battery bank.  It is also an indicator of the size of your battery bank needs to be.  Using P=IxE you can convert that Watt HR number into amps.  1030 = I x 12 VDC or... 85.33 amps. A typical group 31 AGM battery will be rated right around 100 amp hrs., so at first glance a single battery should do the job. That rating of 100 AH means the battery will be for all intensive purposes will be deader than dead after removing that energy. Most good batteries don't like to drawn down to below 50% or so you would need two to have the capacity.   You will also need to look at how many times you draw the batteries down, too often and the battery life suffers.
There is much information on this subject online.
Dale

[SVJourney]

Jordan,
A good guide, and one that might save you a LOT of money, is The Voyager's Handbook.  She does an awesome job of walking someone through what is needed, versus desired, versus a waste of money.  Good strategies on how to equip a boat according to a given budget.  Plus a good read.
https://www.amazon.com/Voyagers-Handbook-Essential-Guide-Cruising/dp/0071437657

If you pm me an email addy, I can send you a decent e-book on boat wiring systems you can follow.
Wayne