Well Guys and Gals, it finally happened.
Last Thursday I was underway to Montaugh on the South fork of Long Island from Branford Connecticut, for a four day trip.
When we departed, I thought Windrider was a bit sluggish as we cleared the mouth of the river. Without thought, I increased the engine to 2800 rpm and the best I could do was four knots. I rationalized it by thinking the hull must be pretty well covered with growth and in need of a good scrubbing.
(Several weeks before, as my brother was driving the boat I noticed an intermittant exhaust like odor in the cockpit. I rationalized that away by assuming since the wind was coming off the stern, I was smelling some exhaust fumes from the engine.)
About eight knots out, (the engine running the whole time) I again noticed the odor. Shortly after that one of my shipmates called up from the cabin saying there appeared to be smoke in the cabin. That really got my attention!
Sure enough, a gray haze was wafting out of the cabin.
I opened the engine compartment, the paint on the transmission was several shades darker than when I had painted it last year. The transmission was to hot to touch.
I shut off the engine, checked the oil level in the transmission (Using a pot holder) and found the oil badly burned but at an acceptable level.
SeaTow brought us back to Branford.
Yesterday I took off the cover.The oil is burned black. It looks like engine oil long past it's prime.
I turned the shaft by hand and nothing was binding.
Turned on the engine ran it forward and reverse. The boat moved in the right directions.
Here's where I need some help.
Any suggestions as to what I should look for inside the transmission?
Can anyone recommend a source to repair or replace the transmission?
Windrider is a 1980 365 with original Westerbeke 40 and Paragon SAOD transmission.
Hope you guys can come through for me again.
Henri Hali
Henri
The previous owner of my boat had the transmission rebuilt I seem to remember seeing the invoice $1500.00 rings a bell. I am on a business trip in Los Angeles at the moment should be home at the weekend I could try and dig out the invoice if you wish it should have the name of the shop that did the work on it somewhere.
Ed
S/V Moonlight Mile. #110
Hi Ed:
Thanks for the reply.
Windrider was put on the hard yesterday and I removed all of the bolts connecting it to the engine.
Later today I'll bring a mallot and 2X4 and free it.
I look forward to getting the name from you.
Henri Hali
Windrider
Henri,
While you are in there you should take a look at the plate connecting the flywheel to the transmission (the name escapes me). If the springs are loose, it is time to replace. It is a very easy task and the plate should cost around $60.
Scott
I think it's called the damper plate
Scott:
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'll have a look at it.
There is an outfit in Ohio that I got parts and a manual from. I can't recall the name and the manual is on the boat. If I remember I will look into it next time I am aboard and let you know.
Dale Tanski
On the topic of the "Damper Plate", I removed Sea Dragon's this week and picked up a new one this morning from American Transmission in Edgewater, MD (price $222.00)... The springs are so loose in the plate I removed that I can use it as tambourine (very musical). Clearly a project way overdue....
http://www.americantransmissionmd.com/
I have taken photos of each step and will document lessons learned on the "Project Page" on sailingseadragon (most likely this weekend). The project is easy enough except for wrestling with the 108 lb transmission in a very tight space.
I am also replacing the seals on the V-drive as soon as I can figure out what the model is in Sea Dragon. I will post that project as well, if I make any progress.
A little off topic... but what the heck.
Garner
With all of the replies I've gotten so far, I'm almost glad my tranny decided to act like pot bellied stove!
My thanks to each of you again.
I Removed the Transmission without a hitch. (It really gets easier when you've done it four or five times!)
I solved the "wrestling match", Garner mentioned two extractions ago by rigging up a boom vang on my main boom and securing some lines around the transmission before the introduction of my mallet and piece of 2/by. It works great. One substantial tap on the housing, and the tranny popped loose. I then just raised it through the hatch and lowered it into an old milk carton for the final drop to terra firma. (Hope this helps someone else.)
Now a couple of new questions as a result of your input.
What exactly does the "Damper Plate" do, and how do I remove it?
Looking at it and the mating end of the transmission, there is a shaft that passes through the Damper and nothing else. The rest of that end of the transmission is a solid steel plate. By the way, the springs in my Damper are also very loose.
Gardner, as to your Walter Vee Drive. I visited them in 2002 (My how time flies!). They were able to find my model number by giving them the numbers on my boat. They had records of the original installation. Mine is a RV-10,200S15 installed 7/79. Their Phone is 201-656-654. Really nice folks!
Dale, Glad to see you as part of my support team. The company name and manual would be a big help.
I'm digressing from the topic, but perhaps you all can guide me in how to submit some photos of several projects I've done that may be of interest to the members. I am a computer idiot with a capital "I". I've managed to store them on my computer, but that's a far as I've been able to go.
A friend and I designed (make that modified) a frame for my bimini that allows me to lower it without messing with the mizzen boom. It may be a solution for others.
I also relocated all of my electronics from the port bulkhead onto my pedestal guard. This left me with four dead Datamarine instruments glaring at me. I finally solved that by "hiding the holes in plain sight", by installing a Bomar hatch. I've got photos of that too.
Please note, I have to prefice all of this by stating Dale is a Rembrant and I'm a chimp when it comes to restoration. (I'm Dutch, hense the analogy!)
Looking forward to your responses.
Henri Hali
Windrider
Henri,
Thank you for the information on the V-drive... I will call them today.
As for the "damper plate", it softens the shock between your engine and transmission when you engage the transmission. It is basically two (2) plates connected by six (6) springs. One plate is bolted to the engine's fly wheel and the other is connected to the transmission by the spline.
The Damper Plate is attached to the fly wheel with 5 allen screws. To remove it you will need a 3/16 allen wrench. Go to your local hardware store and purchase ($3.50) a 3/16 allen wrench socket as you will need a longer reach and more leverage than you will be able to get with standard allen wrenches.
I will try to post some pictures this afternoon.
Garner
I have posted pictures of the Westerbeke W40 Damper plate... More to follow with details.
http://www.sailingseadragon.com/DamperPlate.htm
Garner
It sounds like your forward cluch plates are slipping. When they do they make alot of friction which makes heat. There is a set screw that locks a slotted nut on the planetary gearpack. It gets a little dark in there so it is hard to see. Rotate the gear to find this screw. It uses a straight blade. when you loosen the screw the slotted nut can be screwed in a few notches. This puts more pressure on the cluch pack. You will notice the forward detent on the handle will be a little more resistance and solid. Too much and you will not be able to put it in forward easily. the referse must be ballanced against the forward. It is adjusted with a spring locked screw across the band around the gear pack. In reverse a tapered draw plated is pulled against the reverse adjustment screw and band. When applied it locks the band form turning thus making the planetary gears work.
Hi Wedelstein:
Thanks for the input.
Now that the tranny is on my work bench it's easy to see all of the items you mentioned. After I clean up the burned oil, I'll fidgit with the adjustments you suggested.
Since my last posting I've removed the front end plate to get a clearer look at things. After removing it I noticed the shaft wabbled a bit in the front end plate bearing. Is this acceptable, or should I replace this bearing and for that matter the bearing at the other end? I'm not looking for more work, but on the other hand.......
I guess the next and perhaps the most important thing I need to get my arms around is how can I tell if the clutch plates were cooked or not.
I've been using my Westerbeke Tech Manual Edition 6 published June 1978 as a guide to get me through this labyrinth of gears and bearings and God knows what other stuff. I would not be able to talk to you guys without it.
If there is an interest in getting this on the site I'd be happy to oblige. I would however need even more guidance to accomplish that task.
Henri
SV Windrider
The damper plate does absorb shock when you engage the transmission, but it also has another important function that is not so obvious. It is on the job anytime the engine is running, especially in gear. In our engines, 2 cylinders fire every revolution, 180 degrees apart. The firing stroke can be a fairly violent event depending on throttle setting. It is mostly smoothed out to an acceptable level by the rotating mass of the engine, ie- flywheel, crankshaft, ect- But some of the pulse gets transmitted out of the engine. So the engine output is not smooth, but a series of rotary pulses. The damper plate absorbs and smoothes out the leftover shock of the firing pulse to protect the transmission gears from being hammered by the engine.
Ray,
Very important point....
Garner
Thanks again to all of you as I work through this "Project".
As Gardner said I could not loosen the 3/16 Allen nuts with a standard Allen Key. Purchased a 3/8 socket type at my local NAPA, and was able to remove it without incident.
I now see how the gizmo works! The springs absorb the energy by compressing as the engine turns.
The springs in mime are loose enough to turn. Is that the sign the unit needs to be replaced? Or is there something else I should look for?
Henri Hali
Windrider
Henri,
If you can move the springs, then you need to replace the damper plate. The springs should be tight in their sets.
Garner
Gardner,
Thanks for the response.
I've been intouch with the Perkins dealer in Upstate NY. They're checking to see if they can get the damper for me.
Would you know if the damper is common in all Perkins engines or are they one of the "marinized" items? Hopefuly its the first.
Henri
Henri
My understnding is that the same plate is used in both marine and nonmarine applications. I was directed to a tranmission shop that stocked parts for Perkins by two Westerbeke dealers.
Garner
I think that on the Westerbeake 40 they use the same damper plate for the paragon as the velvet drive. It looks like they modified the paragon to mount the same manner. It should be a standard item. Make the number of splines is correct.
Hey Garner;
I was just informed by Thorton Marine that the Damper plate for my Paragon SOAD is no longer available.
I noticed in your web page your Paragon is PM10L. From looking at the photos it appears to be hydraulic, or are the hoses for cooling the transmission? (So many variables!!!)
I measured the diameter of my transmission input spline and as best as I can tell its diameter is 1 1/4 inch. Do you know if that's the same as yours?
Maybe I'll get lucky!!!!!
Henri
Henri,
Yes it is a hydraulic... The local Westerbeke dealer told me there are only 4 or 5 different damper plates used on Westerbeke engines and they suggested that I go to the American Transmission for parts.. Dave Layman is very knowledgable about transmissions & drives used with Westerbeke/Perkins.
I do not know what size shaft I have, but call Dave (420-956-2100) he is very helpful.. Also, he carries parts for the Walter V-drive if you need those...
Garner
Thanks Garner, I'll call him tomorrow
Garner:
Just a quick update on my transmission.
I spoke Dave Layman at American Transmissions and sent my SAOD and Damper plate to him about a week and a half ago. He said he'd call me when he's had a chance to look at it.
Sounds like a good guy.
Thanks for the suggestion and all the other input.
I'll keep you posted.
Henri
Well guys and gals I think my transmission saga is over.
Dave at American Transmission returned my tranny and debited my Visa card for $2450.00.
(This included $186.00 for the new Damper Plate) While waiting, I investigated other sources for the Damper. Contrary to my first posting, they are readily available from several sources. If you're in the market get on the Internet or call Hamilton Marine in Portland Maine.
My experience with Dave was mixed. It took three phone calls over the span of a month to get things moving. The excuses reminded me of some homework my dog chewed up when I was a young pup. I wonder if my teacher's reaction was the same as mine was with Dave. He asked what color I wanted it painted I said "red" and got it back "distressed red". IE he sent it back unpainted. An oversight? Perhaps. I'll know better next May when I try it out.
Being a bit of a control freak, perhaps my angst was in part due to the distance of his shop. It would have been nice to see the process in person.
I'll let you all know how I make out next spring. In the mean time, Happy New Year everyone!
Henri Hali
SV Windrider
Hi Everybody
My paragon started groaning in reverse, so I've been rebuilding it in my basement. I was able to get all the parts from Transmission Marine in Ft Lauderdale. They UPS's everything I needed up to My house in VT.
Very quick service and quite reasonable prices.
The rebuild has been a bit daunting but it is all back together and I just shipped it down to Fl.
I bought a damper plate on e-bay. I not sure if it fits, but it has the right # of splines and slides on the transmission OK. There is one more plate on e-bay for sale at $55. I'm going to put it on next week. So if anyone is interested e-mail me and let you know if the damper works.
Gordon on "Osprey" hull # 393
Hi all!
Well as I said in my last posting back in December, I'm updating you on my rebuilt transmission.
I reinstalled my Paragon SAOD and launched Windrider this past week. Having previous experience doing this it took less than two hours.
While secured to the dock I tested the trans and found it very hard to snap into forward. I did not feel comfortable with this so I adjusted it to the point where it shifted easier. All went well at the dock and I was able to get her into forward and reverse.
So far so good.
We motored out to my mooring which is a few miles down river and all seems well
Oops pressed the send button to soon!
To finish my posting.......
... and all seemed well. After securing the boat on the mooring I did a visual check and found the upper housing of the trans to be warm to the touch and the lower part quite a lot warmer, almost uncomfortable to touch. Since this was the symptom that led me to having it rebuilt in the first place I'm a bit sensitive to the heat.
Before getting on the horn with American Transmissions I'd like to ask those of you who have the SOAD if this is a normal condition. Your response will be greatly appreciated.
Henri Hali
SV Windrider
yes it does get hot and it is normal.
as long it is not slipping you should be fine.
phil
HI
mine gets hot cup of coffee sort of temp,to hot to hold hand on for to long'mine was rebuilt 2 years ago and has clocked 370 hours ! since,just changed the oil and looks ok,no metal dust ect
hope this is of help,ocean pilgrim
Thanks guys!
I'm very relieved by your responses.
One more question.
I've adjusted both forward and reverse a number of times over the past years. I've never been comfortable with the settings. Here's why. In other postings the guideline is to adjust to the point of no slippage. (Here's where I prove my total ignorance) I really don't know when it's slipping or not. As I said in my previous posting, I secure the boat to the slip, I put the trans in forward and the boat moves forward. I put it in reverse, it moves in reverse. How can I tell if the trans is set to it's optimum?
your insight would be greatly appreciated.
Henri Hali
SV Windrider Hull 316
Hi
I can only tell you the way i set mine up ,when the yacht is under way slowly increase the engine speed in forward gear the boat speed will increase as the engine speed goes up ,If the engine speed goes up and the yacht stalls out at 4 to5 knots but the engine speed still keeps rising adjust up anuther click then try again,with revers ,with the lever down "no drive" push down hard prob 4-6 lbs revers drive,i can hear mine in revers when its biting,hop this is of help,ocean pilgrim
What you need is a phototach or better yet, a tach set up on the shaft or coupling behind the transmission. Then you would be able to compare engine rpm and shaft rpm. This should detect clutch slippage pretty early and therefore extend the life of the clutches quite a bit by telling you when you need to adjust.
Without a means to compare rpm, the clutch is probably slipping pretty badly and making a lot of heat by the time you realise you have a problem. Each time it gets hot, a little damage is done...
Your forward cluch pack is slipping. The slippage creats heat. There is a locking screw that secures a threaded ring that sets the pressure on the forward cluch pack. It is hard to see as it is pretty dark in there. You may be able to adjust the slippage out of the pack by backing off the locking screw and rotating the ring in the direction of the pack. You hope that there is still enough surface left. Change the fluid. you dont want too slippery fluid. I used 90 weight gearcase fluid. The normal was 30 weight oil. I wonder about AFT transmission fluid. What does other people use.
The reverse cluch is the band around the planitary. The control shaft pulls a tapered draw plate. you adjust this by the bolt that has the slot that the draw plate slides.
Neutral is a different story. The two clutches never completly release therefore, they drag against each other. The shaft is never completely stopped.
As Always, you folks have been most helpfull. My thanks to all of you for your input.
I'd like to explore some of your suggestions a bit further if you don't mind.
Wedelstein,my transmission was just rebuilt over the winter, so I should have plenty of surface on the clutch pack. When I got the transmission back from American transmissions in Maryand and before running the engine , I found I needed a lot of force to snap it into forward. I backed it off to where I felt it was more where I thought it should be.
I'm also curious what other members think about using 90 weight gear grease. I've always had 30 weight in it as the manual states. My Walters Vee Drive also calls for 30 weight.
RayNWanda's suggestion to look into a tach on the shaft sounds like a sure way to accurately set the clutches. My only concern is the accuracy of my engine tachometer. Or do you think that should not be an issue?
By photo tach do you mean a hand held tach that senses a spot on a shaft? That seems like the easiest of the two. I wonder if Harbor Freight has one that would be good enough.
Ocean Pilgrim's analogy to hot coffee has also been helpfull. I now think mine may be hotter than that. Especially since I only moved the boat 2 miles at most when I checked it.
As I mentioned I'm not all that confident with American Transmission and am concerned I'll get lip service if I don't have my ducks in a row. And then there's the issue of them being in Maryland and me being in Branford CT.
I'll look forward to your comments and explore your suggestions this coming week.
This site is worth it's weight in gold!!!
Henri Hali SV Windrider Hull 316
I have a handheld phototach that reads a piece of reflective tape as it passes through the light beam. It works really well, about the only problem I have had with it is when I put a piece of tape on a shiny shaft, but that is easy to overcome.
In this case, a piece on the front pulley and a piece on the shaft should read same-same rpm.
It sounds like your forward cluch plates are slipping. When they do they make alot of friction which makes heat. There is a set screw that locks a slotted nut on the planetary gearpack. It gets a little dark in there so it is hard to see. Rotate the gear to find this screw. It uses a straight blade. when you loosen the screw the slotted nut can be screwed in a few notches. This puts more pressure on the cluch pack. You will notice the forward detent on the handle will be a little more resistance and solid. Too much and you will not be able to put it in forward easily. The forward cluch pack locks up the planitary sso that it does nothing in forward. You may need to replace the cluch plates it you have worn them out due to the slippage. The reverse must be ballanced against the forward. It is adjusted with a spring locked screw across the band around the gear pack. In reverse a tapered draw plated is pulled against the reverse adjustment screw and band. When applied it locks the band from turning thus making the planetary gears work.
Okay after reading this post I realised mine problem of falling back of trust when I increased the rev's above 2200 rpm could be the paragon slipping instead of a wrong dimensioned prop. so I tightened the forward clutchplates and voila 2500 rpm and 6,5 knots. Some of you will say maybe a little bit high in rev's voor that speed but mine hull is now in the water for three years and is in need the get cleaned and painted.
I was missing some technical info on how to but figured it out and will put some photo's to mine post day will speak for them self's i think ;)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd49/dutchie_photo/pearson365/IMGP1263.jpg?t=1276555530)
I already took the 2 top screws out because the bracket for the engineoil extract pump is located at the top of it.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd49/dutchie_photo/pearson365/IMGP1260.jpg?t=1276555597)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd49/dutchie_photo/pearson365/IMGP1261.jpg?t=1276555596)
Do not unscrew the lockingnut completely but just enough to turn the adjusting nut
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd49/dutchie_photo/pearson365/IMGP1262.jpg?t=1276555596)
I extracted the ATF oil and put SAE 30 in it.
Just a couple of question if I may. If the transmission is difficult to put into reverse are there any 'quick checks' I can make to find out why, or is this characteristic of this 30 y/o transmission? Could it be a lubrication issue in the linkage someplace? Last, is there a rebuild kit for the trans or do you just pull it out and send away for a rebuild?
Thanks,
Mark
Mark:
Having gone thru this epic and having had my tranny rebuilt, I'd say buy a rebuilt.
But before you do, can you give some more detail and describe what you mean when you say it's hard to put in reverse.
From my perspective the SAOD reverse sounds like hell when you put it in reverse, and since it does not "lock" into reverse, leaning on the lever is the only thing you can do. As I understand it, it's the nature of the beast.
Others have chosen to go with a Velvet Drive". I did not for several reasons. One the cost, two all the modifications needed, (Oil coolers, etc).
My "New" rebuilt has been in for three months and I'm still tweeking the adjustments and wondering if I got it right.
I'm pretty comfortable with the forward, but not so sure about reverse. I've also been challanged to find a setting where I can get her into proper neutral. It seems to be a very narrow window. She's either slightly in forward or slightly in reverse.
Dutchie's photos are a very good guide, and clearly shows you what to look for when you first open her up.
Do let us know your problem in more detail.
Henri
Henri:
When the engine survey was being done I was asked to set the transmission in reverse and then back to neutral. I believe the surveyor was checking linkages and such. I noticed it needed a hefty push down on the lever, although I don't recall having to keep it forced into the reverse position. The mechanic didn't make a big deal of this nor do I recall any loud noise when going from neutral to reverse, but it seems to me that if it is difficult to use today it will only get worse with time. On something this old I supposed it to be rust/friction/worn bushing.....?
I'm no hurry to pay for a rebuild and I seem to recall someone saying that the Paragon is not particularly complicated (to whom is another question). So, maybe as the new operator I should just tear it down to make everything like new. Too hard, too crazy or both?
MF
Mark:
The hefty push down may be an indication the reverse needs to be tightened. Follow Dutchie's post.
This discussion has gotten me thinking about how I put her in reverse. I've had Windrider since 1998. Since day one I've leaned hard on the lever when in reverse. I don't let up until I want neutral or forward. Is this over kill? How do you other folks do it?
If you feel capable of rebuilding it yourself, go for it. I'm fairly competent mechanically, I've removed the tranny four or five times, it only weighs about 60 pounds. but not enough tackle things requiring thousands of an inch (or millimeters for Dutchie) tolerances.
Rust should not be an issue. Bearings, shaft wear, clutches and seals could be.
Keep us posted.
Henri
I suppose the right thing to do is live with it a while and see what happens. I'll probably take a look at linkage and whatever is visible, but your experience indicates this might not find something solvable at that area. Maybe some of the other guys have experience with this also. For the moment it doesn't seem to be critical. I'll be watching here to see what info comes in.
Mark
Hello Henri,
Parts for the Paragon SAOD can be ordered through any Twin Disc clutch distributor. I rebuilt my 2 years ago for a little less than 200.00 in parts. Took about 6 hrs to disassemble, clean and reassemble. If you need it, I can upload a PDF file of the repair manual. Need your email.
Nelson Tolar
Dancing Rabbit
No. 136
Mobile, AL
Nelson:
Where were you $2,400 ago??????
I'd love to get a copy of the manual nonetheless. My email is hendrik@snet.net
I don't know how to post it as an automatic email address. (I'm very computer literate challenged.)
If you've read through my "opus", you may have picked up that I have a tad of concern about the outfit that rebuilt my unit.
Do you have any insight on the noise issue when putting the SOAD in reverse? The only way I can describe it is that it is much louder than when in forward. For all I know this may be perfectly acceptable, but I have a lingering doubt.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Henri
I will dig the file out and email it to you. Meanwhile will do some research into the noise issue. This is not normal for such a simple gear. Look for a post here shortly. I'll also get our Manager of outside Machine work here at the shipyard opinion also.
Nelson
A little wobble of the front shaft should be acceptable. In the origional design on palmer engine the front shaft was bolted to the flywheel which gave it support. The frount plate and bearing looks like something done for the weaterbeake/perkins installation. The rest of the front shaft support is the pilot shaft bearing in the flywheel. Check the splines in the damper plate and front shaft for whear.
I hope you have this back together by now. If it is still giving trouble I think I have a set for forward cluch plates in storage.
If anyone is disgusted by the poor reverse of the SAO transmission I have a newly rebuilt velvet drive available for sale.
Keep in mind this transmission was designed to do forward thrust most of the time when I'm right informed there is a planetary gear system inside this transmission which is stationary in forward trust. when going in reverse the clutch plates are losend and the brake-band will hold the housing of the gears and these gears will start rotating in their housing. These gears are with straight teeth because noise isn't a issue, cheaper to manufacture ( mine engine has ran for 1900 ours and probably did 2 ours in reverse of that ;) ) So yes reverse is giving some extra noise from the gears but nothing disturbing I think.
when backing up in a harbor I put the lever with some force in reverse and most of the time it stays there. but holding mine hand on the lever during manouvring isn't a issue for me. When stopping in the slip I like it to have mine hand at the lever and give it a little burst of power till it stops and the put it in neutral a.s.a.p.
Wedelstein,
Does the velvet drive slip right in, or does it require changing much. I really hate the paragon with the reverse clutch....
Also, does it require hydraulics and anything special for them, as my curreny paragon needs none of that...
Thanks
I realize this post is older, but I have info that is relevant and important. I hope the admin will allow me to post this. My experience with American transmission in edgewater maryland. I need to warn others so they don't get burned like I did!
American Transmission 74 mayo road in edgewater Maryland ripped me off. .
avoid this placeI paid them $2750 to rebuild my truck transmission. 1 week after the repair, it was slipping and often not going into gear. the work was never done right. all I got from Dave Layman was lies and excuses. he never fixed it right, nor will he refund my money. Avoid American transmission in edgewater! 4 times he tweaked it, never could get it fixed.
I don't understand how they have been in business so long. I finally had the dealer fix it RIGHT at a cost of $3800. I think American should do the RIGHT thing and refund all of my money but so far they have not.
I recently learned that they no longer rebuild auto transmissions. wonder why? seems they never knew how to do it when they attempted to fix mine.
look for my google review for all the details and BS I had on dealing with American transmission in edgewater maryland. 30+ years I've dealt with many local businesses, this is the FIRST time I've ever been shafted by a local business.
avoid American Transmission in edgewater md and tell your friends please so they don't get burned like I did.Quote from: Henri Hali on December 30, 2009, 06:31:49 PM
Well guys and gals I think my transmission saga is over.
Dave at American Transmission returned my tranny and debited my Visa card for $2450.00.
My experience with Dave was mixed. It took three phone calls over the span of a month to get things moving. The excuses reminded me of some homework my dog chewed up when I was a young pup. I wonder if my teacher's reaction was the same as mine was with Dave. He asked what color I wanted it painted I said "red" and got it back "distressed red". IE he sent it back unpainted. An oversight? Perhaps. I'll know better next May when I try it out.
Being a bit of a control freak, perhaps my angst was in part due to the distance of his shop. It would have been nice to see the process in person.
I'll let you all know how I make out next spring. In the mean time, Happy New Year everyone!
Henri Hali
SV Windrider
Quote from: Nelson on September 16, 2010, 05:22:16 PM
Hello Henri,
Parts for the Paragon SAOD can be ordered through any Twin Disc clutch distributor. I rebuilt my 2 years ago for a little less than 200.00 in parts. Took about 6 hrs to disassemble, clean and reassemble. If you need it, I can upload a PDF file of the repair manual. Need your email.
Nelson Tolar
Dancing Rabbit
No. 136
Mobile, AL
Please contact me if possible about rebuilding the Paragon SAOD tranny. I have hull #24 and she is a great rig. Looking at DIY on the tranny. Just need some hard to find rebuild procedures and maybe some parts location info.. Thanks
Quote from: Henri Hali on September 27, 2009, 01:09:10 PM
Hi Wedelstein:
Thanks for the input.
Now that the tranny is on my work bench it's easy to see all of the items you mentioned. After I clean up the burned oil, I'll fidgit with the adjustments you suggested.
Since my last posting I've removed the front end plate to get a clearer look at things. After removing it I noticed the shaft wabbled a bit in the front end plate bearing. Is this acceptable, or should I replace this bearing and for that matter the bearing at the other end? I'm not looking for more work, but on the other hand.......
I guess the next and perhaps the most important thing I need to get my arms around is how can I tell if the clutch plates were cooked or not.
I've been using my Westerbeke Tech Manual Edition 6 published June 1978 as a guide to get me through this labyrinth of gears and bearings and God knows what other stuff. I would not be able to talk to you guys without it.
If there is an interest in getting this on the site I'd be happy to oblige. I would however need even more guidance to accomplish that task.
Henri
SV Windrider
Henri,
You describe the exact problem I am having with my propulsion. Just no get up and go...What rpms do you run to get 5 knots? My tranny oil is black and it is only 10 hours old. Even tho, I did not have the smoke...I think the tranny gets to hot to touch. I just never have jumped right down there and tested it...when I stop the engine. But I feel that something is not right with my rpm to speed....Billy
Did you rebuild your tranny with the help of the (Westerbeke Tech Manual Edition 6 published June 1978)?
Where you able to post the manual? Is there a way to get a copy from you, maybe in a zip or PDF file.
I would like to see a schematic of your bimini frame modification. Mine also hits or my mizzen boom.
Morning....has anyone replaced the paragon with a Hurth?
I have a W40 with a paragon transmission. I am trying to replace my Paragon with a Hurth. Do you know which Hurth will match up with the Westerbeke 4-108 40 HP? I can not find parts for the paragon in central Florida.
Yesterday, I took the plate off the tranny to have a local transmission mechanic check it out. He told me that it looks and sounds fine to him (talked himself out of work)...NICE GUY...But I had overfilled the thing. When I changed the oil last, I was not able to remove the dip stick ( I did not even know it was one and I did not want to break anything tugging on it) so I filled the tranny full to the rim...probably 2 and 1/2 quarts...I do not know if this was a contributor to my problems. This time I used the dip stick as a guide and only put about 30% of the free space with oil...about a quart and 3/16ths. It was about an 1/8 of an inch over the second scribed line up the dip stick.
eliminating headaches one at a time....lol....Thanks to all of you, esp...Pete and Allen....Billy