Ice Box Refit and Instalation of a Adler-Barbour CU200

[SV THIRD DAY]

In Preparation for our 4-5yr Cruise we are preparing to install an Adler-Barbour Super Cold Machine (CU200).  We are planning on using the Port water tank for the water cooling to prevent the salt water corrosion issue we have heard so much about.  Knowing that your 12V system is only as good as you "Box".  I am looking on modifying the "Cave" (as Lori and I call it) icebox on our Pearson 365.  I would love some thoughts and advice from others that have already danced this dance and learn from their experiences.

Any ideas, thoughts, warnings, success stories, horror stories, or general comments or wishes of Luck (because I will need it)?

[Jack Tyler]

Rich asked me to post a short description of how we rebuilt the icebox on our Pearson 424, WHOOSH. This is just one way to skin the cat; perhaps it will be helpful but keep in mind I was going for 'simple, effective and cheap', not the Ultimate Icebox. (Why? You'll see at the end of this post). One basic decision we made was not to remove the countertop. It was in good shape and so the assumption we started with was that we would rebuild the box from inside. A second decision I made, as I wasn't sure how well the rebuild would look and function, was that the original box with its gelcoat finish would remain unaltered. Additionally, I chose to add the additional insulation in a way that would make it possible to restore the original box; it's totally removeable. The reason for this was that my icebox was ~9 cu ft and I was shrinking it down to ~4.5-5 cu ft since we knew we were headed for warm waters. Perhaps the next owner would want a bigger box at the cost of 'spending' more amps than I was willing to do, so I was trying to save him/her that option.

The 424 and 365 galley layouts are quite similar and the icebox location and size are almost identical. You may not think about it this way but one description of your icebox could be that it is heated on 3 of its 6 sides: by the sun on the port hull, by the oven, and by the water in which the hull floats (very nearby the bottom of the icebox). I kept that in mind when adding insulation.

Step 1 was to add isocyanurate (closed cell) foam. I found 1" double foil backed exterior 4x8' foam sheets at Home Depot; it was very inexpensive with a good R rating. I incrementally cut and added slabs of this foam to each interior box side in turn, staggering the corner overlaps where the slabs met (which defeats migration of cold) and attaching each piece with a few squirts of silicone sealant. We started with ~2" of foam all around except the top of the box (underneath the counter) which had none. I chose to end up with 8" against the port hull (hardest area to reach), 6" on the bottom (2nd hardest area for my wife to reach) and 4" everywhere else except 2" on the top. (I should add that I read a few articles on rebuilding an icebox before I started, which was very useful. You might want to do the same). You want these slabs to 'press fit' in place so cut them a tad oversized. This is an easier, quicker step than it might sound like.

Step 1.5 depends on what cooling source you will be installing. If it's a small evaporator box, you may choose to skip this step. In our case, we were going to hang a large holding plate on one of the new box walls, and so I had to firmly attach some sections of wood to the box liner where the holding plate fasteners were going to go. The wood ended up being flush with the inside surface of the foam. Key point: you need to know what hardware you will cool the box with before passing this step.

Step 2 was to add a vapor barrier, an important step which will help keep condensed mositure out of your foam. (The moisture may not be able to enter the foam but it can accummulate inside the foil covers and inbetween each foam sheet...and any that accummulates will then be an additional heat sink). I ended up buying a paint drop sheet of 6 mils thickness and tried to line the new, smaller, foam lined box interior with this plastic sheet with as few cuts ("leaks") in the plastic sheet as possible. I applied ducting tape everywhere the sheet was overlapped. If I were to pour water into the icebox at that point, there would be leaks...but they would be few & very slow which was the best I could hope for. (If you doubt this step serves a purpose, you will be VERY surprised when you next bend over and work inside this plastic-lined box. It has instantly become a real sweat box, proving its value as a vapor barrier).

Step 3 was to finish out the interior of the box; it had to be shiny, white, easily cleaned and attractive. I ended up choosing a 4x8' sheet of PVC sheet (a plastics supplier will have this) which is easily cut with a jigsaw or skill saw. I cut each 'wall' out of the PVC sheet and bedded all the joints with Lifecaulk in hopes that would make them watertight. (I ended up with PVC sheet scrap that I've used for so many other projects that I went back for another 4x8' sheet!) I attached each wall section to the plastic-lined foam with Liquid Nails adhesive. This will get you 90% there but you still have a lot of exposed joints where two PVC sheets come together. A nice coincidence is that DIY stores like Lowe's and HD offer cheap, white interior wall siding trim that is made out of PVC. I cut individual lengths of PVC trim moulding to cover the joints and attached them with PVC cement. Again, very easy.

Finishing touches: I screwed in two wooden cleats on the forward and aft walls of the icebox, well outboard on that awkward-to-reach port side These cleats lay at an angle and they accept a small section of PVC which lies on top of them. This created a shelf furthest away from the holding plate, which is a good place to lay the heads of lettuce and other veggies without them falling to the bottom of the box. Because I installed a holding plate (on the interior or 'starboard' side of the box), I used a machine shop 'brake' and bent up some thin plates of aluminum to form, when pop-riveted together, a freezer box that hangs right up against and on the holding plate. Into this we place things we wish to freeze along with our vertical aluminum icecube trays. (All this metal-to-metal contact really helps the cold transfer). Finally, I chose to keep the icebox drain and so I had to extend a new drain hose up from the existing drain (a small plastic thru-hull fitting) to be flush with the bottom of the new box. I used vinyl tubing to do this but I'm not sure it was worth the effort; we've never used it and leave a cork in it.

So...why did "good enough" turn out, for us, to be good enough? Why were vacuum panels unnecessary? With the box rebuilt and an Isotherm water-cooled 12V holding plate cooling source, I measured a 24 hr amp/hr consumption - in May and June, in St. Pete, FL with 80 degree seawater and 85 degree air temp - of 33 and 35 amp hrs (2 separate trials). Spending a lot more money would not have resulted in a great deal less amp consumption because there's not much consumption to begin with. 8 years later, our compressor failed and we replaced it in 2006 with a new generation Danfoss compressor. We are now down in the 25 amp/hr/day range, due to that new compressor's amazing efficiency.  We have ice cubes as big, hard and clear as anyone in the anchorage...so sometimes, 'good enough' is just that.

Sorry for the long post. I'll drop by from time to time if anyone has questions about the niggly details. For us, this has been a great improvement and, I estimate, all for less than $200 in materials.

Jack
WHOOSH, currently wintering in Gzira, Malta

[getlostonpurpose]

I think I have exact blueprint drawings for the icebox on the boat .  I don't know where I got them, but I have something like that.  I'll take a look and try scanning them.  

We shrunk ours down by cutting out the area where things get lost.  If you're looking down into the ice box, the far left bottom, under the removable shelf.  

We stacked this area full of R-mat insulation from lowes and then sealed the shelf above it to keep fluids/moisture out.  Then we covered the "front side" (the vertical area) with a sheet of starboard, cut it perfectly, and sealed it as well.  Shrinks the reefer to a much more managable size.

[aschoenberg]

Hello Folks,

In trying to figure out how to refrigerate our P365 Ketch (OK not the whole boat but that Ice Box  is pretty close - 51 inches by 17in.) I came up with another idea to have refrigeration without having to totally refigerate the ICE BOX or cut it up into sections.  I am now considering refitting the Dry Box (next to the galley sink - port side) with a Waeco Coolmatic CB-36.  This is a self contained refrigeration system that has a Danfoss DB35 compressor that I can mount either under the refrigeration unit or on the side.  I believe that the Dry Box can accomodate the Unit (16 in square - with 1.3 cubic foot of refrigeration space) with minor alteration of the drop out panels and the openning.  Can anyone figure out where my logic went wrong on this idea?
Thanks
Andy

[SV THIRD DAY]

All Credit for this GREAT info comes from our good friend Garner on Sea Dragon

Sea Dragon Website Link

[Leo Uhran]

I just installed an Adler Barbour (waeco) CU-100 (mabe it was the 85?)radiator located on side not top with the largest VD-07 ice box evaperator.

I put the compressor in the cabinet left at the foot of the companionway on a shelf in about the middle that I added. Put a teak intake vent on the galley side and drilled 1 inch diameter holes in the right side removable floor board that accesses the bilge area.

I'm hoping this is enough ventilation without building heat, so far so good. If I had to I could install a small computer type fan but I don't think it will be necessary.

I installed the evaporator horizontally under the left side of the box to the top of the cooler. There's about a 1 inch space between.  One problem with this I have found is the condensation is leaving a perimeter sweat on the counter top side. I think insulation between the evaporator and the top of the cooler will prevent that.

Another location to install the evaporator is on the right side vertically (opening up) against the cooler wall just below the shelf.

I chose the left side to cool the deep dark end of the box. My opinion the the right side is the popular side to go in and out of a lot due to the shelf storage. This compressor keeps my entire box at an even 34 degrees while set on 5. There is no need to section the cooler unless your trying to deperately conserve energy.

I have not analyzised my power consumption yet. I will do this once I add a 2nd group 31 house battery and good battery monitor (next project already started)

What do you think?

[aschoenberg]

I just bought a Xantrex Link 20 battery monitor on e-bay for $275.00 brand new in box (about $75.00 less than list).  I have heard that this is an excellent monitor that will allow for dual bank (house and starter) monitoring.
Did you go with AGM or Flooded batteries?

I am building my refrigerator and I was amazed at the cost of all the added stuff (3 AGM batteries, new 3 stage regulator, battery monitor and solar panel addition).  What was you set up cost?

[Leo Uhran]

I knew I was going to need to upgrade the batteries and charger with the addition of the refrigeration.

I built the battery box (minmum cost) $18 matl)
I'm going to pull the stock 6amp battery charger and replace it with the Xantrex True Charge 20 ($340)
I'm adding the Link 20 Battery monitor ($380) but I'll look on e-bay now that I know that is a viable place to find stuff.

All my batteries are flooded now. I can't justify AGM or Gel for the cost.
There's already one wet group 31 battery I'll add the second one for ($140)
I got hit by lightning with my last boat (Endeavour 35) it had Gels and cost me $1000 to replace when they got fried.

That gives my house 210amp hrs but if you apply that 60% rule thats only 126amp/hrs? I'm really not sure here if I'm going to need a 3rd. Until I get it all installed and see what the consumption is.

Question: What is the "3 stage regulator?" do I need one? What does it do.

Any amp hour suggetions from anyone would be highly valued. I'm not going offshore with it for a long time, just 2-4 day local trips.

My last boat was set up by it's previous owner with all the latest stuff including inverter. I could use all the systems on the boat for 24hrs and run the engine at 2k rpm for one hr and charge back up for a another 24 hr cycle. It was sweet. That's the direction I'm taking this one in.

[SailingSeaDragon]

For what it is worth you are welcome to download the "Energy Audit" spreadsheet I used to size the battery bank on Sea Dragon...

Go to http://www.sailingseadragon.com

then select "Projects", click on "Adding a Third Battery", and you will see a link "Download this spreadsheet". Clicking on the link will launch the spreadsheet in a window and you can then do a "save as" to your hard drive. Or, highlight the link, right click the mouse, and select "Save Target as" to choose the file save location for the spreadsheet.

The spreadsheet has been pretty accurate over the last two seasons...

Good luck
Garner

[Leo Uhran]

Sea Dragon,

I'm way ahead of you. Did it when I saw it. Slick idea. I've looked over the spread sheet and just have a couple of questions.

The "Recharge Capacity" is your alternator used 2 hours/day = "power Generated. - Correct?

Using my battery bank:
If; Daily amp Hrs = 126 (or 60% of total hrs available (210) )
then my reserve = 84 amp/hrs.
You assume running your engine 2 hrs / day for the added charge to recalculate your actual "Daily Reserve".

Then, as long as you don't go below the house 60% (my case 84ah's) you can figure everything is OK?

I appreciate the help.

[SailingSeaDragon]

Leo,

The "power generated" I think is correct...

It is:

rated output of the Alternator (amps/hr) x hours operated per day x typical efficiency (75%)

I found the 75% efficiency from an article or one of the boat maintenance books I have read. That is why after running our 75 amp/hr alternator for 2 hours we only gain 113 amps instead of the 150 you might expect.

The 75% efficiency is based engine/alternator rpm, energy loss in the system, and the battery's ability to accept a charge. You will find as the battery reaches 90% charge, the ability of the battery to accept amps drops significantly. Thus the reason of 3 stage chargers & regulators, i.e. "trickle charging".

Don Casey has several good books on the topic... However, below is a nice link on battery charging.

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/battchg.htm

Yes on the stay above 60%.  A quick sad story: Last year in an all night sail in heavy winds (very active autopilot), radar, fans, and full instruments, I ran the house bank to about 30%... They never held a charge after that point....

Good Luck
Garner

[Sta-Sea-Dawn]

I have hull 193...it had a grunert unit driven by a 90 amp electric motor.  I have discarded it.  I have a cold plate that looks good.  Can I hook a different unit, maybe an adler barbour to my cold plate?  ....Billy
Is it better togo bigger and size up from the 100 to the cu200?

[egoodhue]

After a season of packing ice the galley crew demanded we put a refrigeration system in before next year. so off we went to the Annapolis Show looking at cold plates etc. and decided on a  COOLBLUE, from Technautics Inc.

Having searched the archives I cannot see any information or tips on how to add a second access cover to the ice box between the factory installed one and the port side sliding cabinet. Has anyone installed a second access cover or removed the existing counter top to modify the icebox. I want to keep the cold plate vertical on the starboard side and use the locker facing the starboard side at the end of the ice chest to install the compressor.

any tips on removing the counter top would be appriciated

Ted
Fantasia
#120

[Dale Tanski]

Ted,
What you see is what I got when I bought the boat.  I finished removing what was left and replaced.  Enjoy.


Upper lip


With counter top


With counter top removed.  There are flat head screws under the formica. You can see the screw holes on the left side nailer strip.


On its way out.


The pit.


Dale

[egoodhue]

Ted
SV Fantasia