Water Level in the Skeg

[PeteW]

Howdy All,

So I've read all the discussion regarding the hollow skeg and its ability to fill with sea water. What I'm not able to determine is if the forward rim of the skeg where it meets up with the hull, when viewed from inside the hull is that a point that is below the water line on the hull.  My main question being, can a 365 sink due to a damaged or leaking skeg?

I ask this because while crawling around in the engine compartment, when viewed through the campanionway, up under the engine I see a pool of water in the skeg cavity. Its below the fuel tank. I can see in there on my Pearson because the fiberglass engine pan has been cut out to accommodate the larger engine I have. I don't know how deep it goes. Could be 3" maybe 3'.

I'm going to run a hose in there and if need be I may equip this boat with a bilge pump for the skeg as this cavity does not drain down to the main bilge. As far as the sinking boat aspect goes,  maybe that's a good thing. Last thing you might what to do is set up a siphon that will sink the boat through a hole in the skeg.

I'm planning a serious haul out in a month or so, I'm not too worried. My guess is its been like this for a long time.

Thanks for all your expert feedback.
Pete W.  old ketch #6

[EdHouston]

My skeg is not hollow I do not think, I will now take a closer look but I am reasonably sure it is solid glass, maybe the earlier boats were made like this or maybe I am just missing it altogether.

If it is open sounds like a bag of concrete would fix that problem fairly easy, I have heard of people filling the bilge sump with concrete.

Ed

[PeteW]

Hey Gordon,

So looking at the hull profile posted on http://www.sailingseadragon.com/drawing.htm
you can see that the skeg bolts through the hull 6" or  so down hill from the leading edge of the skeg. The drawing puts the entire skeg well below the waterline indication. I sure hope its sealed off otherwise a hollow then  punctured skeg would be catastrophic.

Having the engine pan cut out as in my boat boat reveals this area where water that gets through the cockpit can pool up in what must at least be a low spot. IMO this water should be running down to the bilge. I'm guessing that an unmodified 365 needs to have the fuel tank out to see this. It most likely goes unoticed as a result.

I noticed that the forward ( toward the sail gear)transverse engine mount brace also dams up water.  In this case being below the engine it would dam up oil that might leak out the motor. This is perhaps a good measure that would prevent engine oil from mixing with bilge water.

I guess I'm sort of AR about water pooling anywhere below deck.  It keeps the humidity high and stuff rusts at an accelerated pace.

Pete

[EdHouston]

Hi Pete

I think we are talking two separate thoughts here the rudder skeg is the area just forward of the rudder and that part that the rudder is attached to, what I think your talking about is the prop shaft strut I think is the correct term or name, and your correct this is bronze and is through bolted to the hull with four bolts. On my boat the rudder skeg is directly below my fuel tank, I am going to borrow a borascope from work and go do some exploration in and around the under tank engine are and see what I can see.

Ed

[PeteW]

Ed,

I'm hoping its clear that I'm talking about the skeg cavity which is aft of the missen bulkhead and under the fuel tank. On my hull there is a small pond that has formed up in there. It looks like I need a sepearate bilge pump in there to keep it drained. Or at least I should find the leak.

No way for water to pool around the strut bolts on my hull which are directly uner the engine oil pan. That part of the hull is a down hill slope toward the stern tube.

Pete

[EdHouston]

Pete

I will lay money down that the water is coming from your rudder shaft packing gland you will need two 2" wrenches to tighten the gland one for the back up nut and the other for the gland, my boat has the same issue its on the list to tighten or re-pack the gland during the next haul out. On my boat its very difficult to get to as my aft locker has the propane storage bin fixed into it.

You may try a wick to pull the water out of that area if you can get the other end lower than the top end it will wick the water down hill better than a bilge pump I would think.

I am going to try and get the borascope today and take a look under my fuel tank. Not sure if I can snap stills with the system we have but if I can I will take some pictures and post them.

Ed

[Dale Tanski]

Perhaps this will help.
As you can see in the photo, there are 4 bolts that hold the prop shaft skeg on to the bottom of the boat.  These bolts are somewhat accessible with the engine in place and one can,with some skin removal, reach them if they need to be removed. 



Under the fuel tank (further aft from the engine) you will notice the outline (depression) of the rudder skeg.  The rudder skeg is not simply glued to the bottom of the boat with a few layers of fiberglass, it was laid up with the hull all at once. If you think about the loads being applied to the rudder skeg under full canvas this is a nicely done construction detail.  The rudder skeg "hole" is covered over with fiberglass to seal it and keep water out.  On my boat the glass cover looked a bit  thin and somewhat porous.  I discovered water in my skeg, (yes it is hollow) from a very slight however constant wetness at the lower pivot point (shoe) of the rudder post.  At first I thought it was just run off rain water but eventually noticed it never dried up even after days of no rain.  I sounded the skeg with a hammer and determined it was about half full.  If you sound your skeg and it sounds solid it is probably full of water.  I ended drilling 3 holes before I determined the actual bottom of the fin and the water drained out of a 5/16" hole for over 15 minutes.  The fact that the water never gulped air (think inverted soda bottle) lead me to the the conclusion that my skeg cover was porous and let air in to replace the draining water.  This meant that either water was dripping into the rudder skeg from the depression above or the lower pivot was leaking and water was entering the skeg from below.

I re-glassed the cap before I reinstalled the fuel tank and plugged the holes that I drilled.  I am gratefull I discovered the water filled skeg prior to winter and the chance of freezing and any subsequent damage from expansion.  I eventually resealed the lower rudder pivot (the water stopped dripping out by the way ). It has been 4 seasons and the skeg still sounds hollow so I think i solved the problem.
Hope this helps.
Dale Tanski

[EdHouston]

Great photo Dale I confirmed the same thing with the boroscope today my skeg has a glassed over cap also then because I could not see a sump of any kind on the camera, I could not record or take photos with the scope but it did allow me to see almost identical to what you have in your photo.

Thanks.

Ed

[PeteW]

Between Dale's uber impressive pictures of his engine room ( you have really raised the bar) and Ed's confirmation of the sloppy glass work done at the factory I think I now know what I need to do. Plus it was very helpful to see what my engine cradle once looked like prior to be chopped up with a sawsall.  Dale I did not see the 2 vertical wooden supports that go up to the mizzen bulkhead. Your's seem to me mizzen ( sorry for the pun). I thought those to be structural. Perhaps they are just studs for hanging the sound proofing panels.

What kind of paint are you using in there? I'd like to use some sort of epoxy in case I need to ever make repairs, I won't need to grind all the paint off to get good adhesion.

Thanks Mateys
Pete

[Dale Tanski]

Pete,
You are correct, there were two wooden columns.  You can still see the stubs in the pictures above.  Here is what I started with, 75% of the aft bulkhead gone, no engine housing, sink or cabinets, and yes... that is 1/2 of an ice box.



You can see the compression columns a bit more clearly here, just before the saw-zall removed them to get the tank out.



I went a slightly different route.  I installed a firewall so to speak which transmits the mizzen compression loads all the way across the cockpit and begins the enclosure process for noise abatement. The wall itself is 3/4" plywood screwed into top and bottom horizontal aluminum angles. The covering that you see is a high density fiberglass board with a heavy duty foil skin that is used for commercial ventilation ductwork.



The grey paint that you see is a product by Dupont called Collar.  It is a two part high build epoxy "primer".  It does dry glossy however and has held up very well.  When I say high build I mean that it mixes up to a final consistancy of ketchup but applies very well with a small roller or stiff brush.  It is great to work with and covers a world of sins. 

Dale