Pole Lift

[CaptCG]

Hi All,

I am planning to rig a whisker pole on the mast of my 365 sloop to improve downwind sailing and pole out the genoa.  In addition to the track on the mast and the blocks and lines to control the inboard end of the pole on the track, I want to install a pole lift (pole halyard) on the mast.  This halyard will attach to the outboard end of the whisker pole.  The sheave for exiting the mast need not be more than about 2/3 way up the mast. It would cleat off at the mast.  The whisker pole would stow vertically on the mast.  Does anyone have a similar rigging?  What is the length of your whisker pole... 1 x J or 1.2 x J measurement? 
Appreciate any comments, critical or otherwise.
Thanks,
Carl
"Sea Hiker"

[Dale Tanski]

Carl,
We don't carry a whisker pole aboard Maruska however we are rigged for a standard symmetrical spinnaker.  I installed the pole topping lift with the block just below the steaming/deck light.  The block hangs on a Schaefer one piece pad eye and it is held in place with machine screws tapped into the spar.  I kept everything external with nothing in the mast.  I installed a very long spinnaker car track (12 ft or so) so I can store the pole in the upright position and off of the deck if I wish.

Whisker poles typically don't have a topping lift or any control lines running aft. The inboard end clips into the spinnaker car on a track or fixed eye and the outboard end hangs on the genoa sheet.  If you did not want to store vertically, a fixed spinnaker eye on the mast is sufficient and much cheaper for either a spinnaker pole or whisker pole. If you want to go vertical you need the long track, a sliding car and blocks and cleats to pull the car skyward carring the pole with it.  I use Forespars 1-1/4" toggle car and their sliding pole chock.

Spinnaker pole length is limited by the "J" dimension however it is common to have a whisker pole longer than "J" or a telescoping design to adjust as needed.

No doubt that a pole on the clew of a large headsail while off the wind is a huge benefit not only in performance but it minimizes the damage done to a headsail that collapses and refills rubbing the standing rigging as it does over and over again.

Dale

[CaptCG]

Dale,
Thanks for the quick reply and good info!  I have some questions however:
1.  Does your pole and external rigging cause slap noise on the mast when stowed?
2.  I thought I had to have a pole lift to control the pole angle....keep it horizontal..and off the lifelines.  The jib sheet just goes in the outboard jaw of the pole, right? 
To keep the pole stable, I will separately have a line from the outboard end of the pole to a bow cleat (foreguy) and a afterguy cleated somewhere aft of midship.  Does this sound right or have I had too much wine?
Thanks again,

Carl

[SVJourney]

Our pole is permanently mounted to the mast on the inboard end.  The outboard end clips onto the mast when not in use just like Dale suggested.  It is a fixed length.

It does slap on the mast when we roll at anchor, I have to wrap a bungee around the mast to secure it or it drives us crazy.  There are probably other better solutions, that was just our quick and cheap method of dealing with it.

We find that a downhaul is the only line we need while poling out the genoa.  The pole tends to lift in light airs as the boat rolls.  The down haul keeps the sail in better shape and reducing slating considerably.  I tie it off to the stanchion, but wish I had a block mounted up there with a line run aft to adjust it easier and be a more secure mount than a stanchion.  I could easily reeve that line only when the pole is being used by clipping it into the jaw, through the block on the rail, then back to a cleat.

The only other thing is to secure it from rubbing on the forward lower shroud.  I tie a loop in the offside sheet close to the clew of the sail and drop the jaw into that, instead of the trimmed sheet, which effectively holds the pole from sliding aft onto the shroud.  A set of fore and aft guys would be great, but I don't use it often enough to justify more lines running on my decks.

Wayne

[Dale Tanski]

Carl,

When the pole is stowed properly in the vertical position it makes no more noise than every other piece of gear when the boat is in the washing machine mode.  The pole chocks made by Forespar  are plyable polyurethane and grip the pole nicely.  The track slot of the spinnaker car that I have is lined with UHWN so it does not click and bang on the track.  When it howls hard enough to make the pole lift and spinnaker car adjustment lines to clang, its time to tighten all of the other halyards as well.  Stowing a pole on deck is not foolproof either, the pole tends to clunk around as well.

Having a pole lift would not be a bad thing. It would help minimize the effort of the foredeck person to deploy and retrieve the pole especially if the pole was equipped with a support bridle. Once you installed the pole topping lift, with the addition of a spinnaker halyard and a couple of turning blocks at the stern, the boat would be considered rigged for a spinnaker and that is also a good thing. 

The jib sheet does go through the outer jaw end of the pole.  Adding a foreguy would steady the setup and actually help prevent the pole from raising up, skying the pole as a racer would say.  In a traditional spinnaker setup a control line is added just to prevent such a thing known as a "pole downhaul".  Typically on a race boat you would see a "pole up" and "pole down" controls, the pole up being the pole topping lift.  An afterguy would not be necessary as you are pulling the pole forward against the knot of the jib sheet so it can not go any farther forward.

Seeing as you may install a pole topping lift and might install a "pole down", you are well on your way to a spinnaker rig.  The halyard bail already exists on your masthead to hang a spinnaker block.  String a halyard on that block and you are in business.  I would recommend running the spare halyard anyway for safety sake. 

Seeing as you are thinking of purchasing a pole I would consider purchasing a spinnaker pole.  Spinnaker poles are fixed length and that length as we discussed is the "J" dimension. A spinnaker pole with a length of 15ft would typically have a outer diameter of 3". They are structurally strong enough to take most any mistakes you may make, where whisker poles are typically much lighter in construction.  I mentioned a telescoping whisker poles, they are adjustable in length but they are typically stronger than a plane jane whisker pole because of the double tube construction.  Telescoping poles cost more than a fixed length whisker pole and make them close in price to a standard spinnaker pole.  Me, I scour E-Bay. You own a good used boat what's wrong with owning a good used pole. My pole came off of E-Bay and although it is a bit short of the "J" dimension it does just fine.

There is always one other option. Forget the pole, mast track, car, chocks, pole topping lift and pole down and buy a asymmetrical cruising spinnaker.  All you need is the spinnaker halyard and one sheet and your downwind performance will be far greater than a poled out 150%.  Better performance unless you are sailing dead down wind that is and then a cruising chute needs to be replaced by a traditional kite.  In all the years I have sailed, I typically do not sail down wind unless I absolutely have to... racing.  Coming up 15 or so degrees eliminates the dead down wind slog and the hotter angle makes for much better boat speed. Hey we tack upwind nothing wrong with zig zagging downwind from time to time.

Dale

[Jim Cozy]

To add to the confusion, I use an oversized telescoping whisker pole, spinnaker pole sized for our boat. The pole lift is rigged like Dale's. I stow the pole in chocks on the stanchions. I've never felt the need for guys, etc. However I would if I were to use it as a traditional spinnaker pole. Jim

[CaptCG]

Dale,

Thanks for the good information.  I'll chew on this for awhile. On our previous boat we rigged the whisker pole so it was rigid in all planes.  It held the genoa out nice and if the wind piped up or for some reason we had to change the sail plan, you just had to furl up the genny, and you could deal with the pole later.

Carl