Searching for a 367 or 386

[cpubob]

I have a few questions that I hope someone can help guide me in the right direction. I will be in the market for our next boat soon, our P28-2 is sweet but does not fit our needs for our planned 3 year live aboard/cruise when I retire in 2 years. There is a 367 for sale on YW on Long Island, the listing is lacking any information, and I asked the broker to give me more pictures of the foredeck because although it is an 83 367 I could not see any hardware for the cutter. The extra pictures show it does not have an inner forestay nor the staysail traveler. It is hull number 45, one of the last 367's could it be that is was delivered as a sloop? The options page does show a delete cutter rig, this one also has a quarterberth (minus cushions). The only other cutter that I know of for sale is in Jamestown, RI and it is not in great shape asking $43500. I'm not sure I want to take-on a project as we have less than 2 years. There is a Pearson 386 for sale and I know this site is for 365/367 but from what I can tell the 386 is a 367 with a foot and a half added to the transom. Although the interior is different, it has a taller mast, it has the same beam, draft, LWL, but it is 800lbs lighter! Does anyone know if this boat would be as strong/robust as the 365 or did Mr. Shaw go light on the hull to cut costs?

[SailingSeaDragon]

Bob,

Based on the hull number (45) the boat is most likely a cutter (P367). With the complete hull number you will be able to tell more about the boat. See the link below.

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/SerialNumber.htm

The differences between the cutter and the sloop go beyond the inner forestay. The mast is taller and stepped 18" aft of the ketch or sloop, the under body is different, and the boom longer. See the link below for more details.

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/Specs.htm

Without the inner forestay and staysail the cutter does not sail as well as a sloop rigged 365. So if the inner forestay & riggingis missing it will need to be added... This includes the inner forestay, rigging below deck (in the anchor locker), clubfoot plus track (or no clubfoot & coach roof tracks), winches, control lines, and running back stays. Oh yes, you will need the sail. A SWAG would be $4,000 to $8,000 depending on quality, sail type, furling or hanked, etc.

The quarter berth & rotated navstation was an option on the cutter..... I might add a rare and very nice option.

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/Pearson367Options.htm

I know very little about the P386 but at the time the 386 hit the market Pearson was under a fair amount of market pressure to move away from the "tried & proven" heavy cruisers (P365 & P424) to what would become known as "Performance Cruisers". This meant lighter boats with more streamlined underbody. The weight reduction, in some cases, was possible because of advances in building techniques and materials. In other cases, this was accomplished by simply cutting back on the materials... With that said, the P365/367 is a very well built boat by anyone's standards and exceeds the real needs of most boaters... Note: a feature I, and many others on this forum like (love) about the boat.

The 386, if my memory is correct, does not have skeg hung rudder, a must from my point of view. Below is a summary of why we chose Sea Dragon over so many other boats...

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/DesirableCharacter.htm

This may or may not be helpful as you look at boats, but it may serve as a starting point for your list.

As for the price, only you know what the boat is worth to you.. We purchased Sea Dragon in a neglected state... My best advice is, make all offers contingent on a survey by marine surveyor with a good reputation. Read and understand the survey... The survey on Sea Dragon 33 pages and full of great information and served as part of our final offer on her.

The link below may be helpful in building a budget for bringing a P367 up to some standard. Oh by the way it was a 3 year process for us... Not that we are finished after almost 6 years as you can see from the list of things to do....

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/MaintenanceLog.htm

Let me know if I can help in anyway.
Garner

[cpubob]

Garner,

Wow, thanks for that wealth of information. The reason for asking about the 386 is because right now the only 367's on the market (that I know of) are the 2 I mentioned and both are a project. The 386 by the way does have the skeg hung rudder and 5.5 foot draft long fin keel, from the drawings I could not tell the difference other than an extra 1.5 feet to the LOA. I did ask the broker for the Hull number for the 367 on Long Island, it is PEA69045M83A. I have been studing 367's for several years now, the best one I saw was from Maine named "Nahasuha", and the 2 from the Annapolis area that sold last year were Sonata and Sea Amigo, both would have gotten an offer from me if I had been ready then. Once my boat sells, which may take a month or 2 years and the 2 367's are still available I will take a trip up to RI and NY to check these boats out. In the mean time I will continue to stufy the market and hopefully be ready when the time comes.

Thanks,
Bob
Don't know if you get the emails from the Pearson Sailing Association of the Chesapeake Bay, there is a cruiser's race from the West River to Dunn Cove the weekend of June 21-22.

[SailingSeaDragon]

Bob,

Good luck with your search. New (different) boats show up on Yachtworld everyday... But you are right P367's are not that common.

The Pearson Sailing Association of the Chesapeake Bay is a great group and we have done things with them in the past.. Unfortunately I have family commitments that weekend and we will be out of town.

Let me know if I can help you in your search.

Garner

[dougcn]

Greatings!

I've got a Pearson 386 (hull# and would be glad to answer any questions.  I saw the one on yachtworld and it's nearly identical to mine, except that one had a furling main and no dodger.

A few notes on the P386.

- Most were built in 1984.  This was among the last back of the "older" generation Pearsons. The ones that followed, over the next few years were very different in construction - painted on cove stripes and a Pearson name on the hull, more in-port (power boat like) interiors, etc.

The 386 was one of the few single purpose designs Bill Shaw made, designed soley as a cruiser.  Many of his other designs were racer-cruisers.   That said, the 386 is a pretty fast cruiser.  Shaw didn't seem to like slow boats.

The 386 is very solidly built:
- Solid glass hull.  The deck is balsa cored.
- Internal lead ballast
- Very robust, skeg hung rudder.
- Keel stepped, single spreader mast.
- All metal below the w/l is bronze.  Traditional seacocks.
- Shaeffer hardware & Lewmar winches

The boat is very well arranged for a couple or family and is easily single-handed.  The genoa winches are purposefully well aft to allow easy access from the helm.

Cruisability notes:
- 150 gallons water (2-75 gal tanks)
- The shower stall is a real plus
- 50 gal diesel tank
- Reliable (though leaky) Perkins 4-108 diesel
- Very large, efficient ice box
- A LOT of stowage space.
- Very functional layout below.  The fixed, drop leaf table is great underway and in port.
- Uncluttered deck layot is functional and comfortable.  A 10' inflatable easily fits on the cabin top forward of the mast.

Performance:
- Fun to sail.  This is a fast cruiser, but not a racer.  I think it rates about 174-180 PHRF.
- Excellent manueverability under sail or power.  

The Cruising Club of America (CCA) published a book "Desireable and Undersireable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts".   It's a good read.  It also includes a list of "5 good boats".  The Pearson 386 is #4.  The other four are a Little Harbor 50, a custom Bill Lapworth related to the Cal 46,  35' McCurdy & Rhodes design (Heritage 35 /Intrepid 35), and a Seguin 44.  The CCA is a pretty knowledgeable crowd, so I suspect that may say something about the boat.

I've been very pleased with my boat.  I watch Yachtworld for them just for curiousity and they don't come on the market very often.  When they do, they're pretty consistent in price.  Once think I've found intriguing is that equipment varies, but I've never seen any major modifications to the layout.  

Happy boat hunting!

Doug

[cpubob]

Doug,

Thanks for the info on this boat. A very knowledgeable friend in my Pearson sailing club has recommended the 386 as well as the 367 to me. The 386 on YW does have roller furling main which is a big negative for me, but it does look clean and fresh inside. I would suspect the PHRF to be a bit higher (faster) than 174-180 but I could not find a 386 listed on any phrf lists, probably because of the low production numbers and as you said it is a cruiser not a racer. I have eliminated many boats from my list because of poor ventilation, but the 365, 367 and 386 with the optional opening ports plus dorades and 2 hatches has plenty of air and light. After I sell Lila, I'll be ready to check this boat out.

Bob

[SailingSeaDragon]

Doug,

Nice write up on the P386...  Very interesting. I really like the idea of two large water tanks..

Garner