Pearson 365 and 367

So, I did my routine  monthly  start up and run of my diesel in my Pearson 365.  Put her in gear at low power keep things lubed. But, when I turned off the engine, I could hear a steady rush of  running water and the bilge pump working hard... Uh oh. A quick look below revealed that the stuffing  box hose had twisted and ripped open in a wide gash. Water was streaming in.  Gasp.  Panic. Act fast.

I cut a handy pair of handy neoprene wetsuit shorts into a long strip. Wrapped the strip in a tight spiral wrap around the hose and fastened it in place with a bunch of hose clamps.  Stopped the flow, save a steady trickle. Then ran to a thrift store, bought a thick vinyl-coated closed-cell foam yoga pad, cut that into a long strip, removed the clamps - more water! - replaced the bandage and re-fastened with even more hose clamps. The good news is that the leak is stopped completely. THe really bad news is that now I am dead in the water.  I fear I can't move the boat safely in any fashion.  I'm worried that towing it will turn the prop shaft enough to twist loose my emergency repair. I certainly can't run the boat under power with a lime-colored yoga pad clamped hard around the tattered remains of my prop shaft seal.

Nearest haul out and boatyard is 45 miles away. I am in the south end of San Francisco Bay. (Apparently, my towing insurance covers up to 50 miles dock to dock; we'll see.)

Question for the experts: What the heck should I do?

1) Tow to the haul out  and fix it on the hard. How likely is the prop to torque my repair to pieces under tow?  I could massively double up the repair so in case the inner repair fails the outer one(s) might keep the water from rushing in, but this scenario, in a 5-hour tow, is beyond nerve wracking.

Is there any way to do a safe repair it in the water? I've removed the V-drive before for a rebuild, so no big deal, but it seems that a replacement hose probably won't fit over the drive shaft flange or  stuffing box flange (by design). I think I know the answer, but hoping I'm wrong.

Anyway, I'm eager for any helpful advice.

My advice to fellow owners: don't neglect this maintenance in your own boat. Scary. LOL.


Thank you!

Thanks to PeteW, I've managed to disassemble my RV10 - all but pressing out the bearings on the two main shafts. Overall, the interior components are  in shockingly good shape, given how worn out the exterior looks and how much rust came out with the oil. I can't even make out where all the rust came from l, though I have to assume it was mostly from the bearings.

With a wiggle test, the pinion gear has a small amount of lash inside the small gear. It seems acceptable, but I'm going to find a way to measure it.  I know there has to be *some* wiggle room for the gears not to bind, but how much lash  is too much? By eye, I'd estimate it between 1 and 3 degrees.

Given what I've found - not nearly as bad as I expected - I'm leaning toward having the drive rebuilt.

Hi Pete,

So, another question. I have disassembled the drive, as far as the bolt-on covers. The angle housing separates, but doesn't come away from the main housing. With some gentle prying, it came off some, but won't come away. Don't know what I need to do to pull this off. I have a machinist who will press the bearings out when I can make room,, but I don't want to destroy anything in the process.

Also, there's a fancy nut on the back, with four notches and a lock washer that's shaped like, I guess you'd call it a "basket". How does that nut come off? I don't have a tool that is meant to match that nut. Like the angle housing, he didn't want to touch it for fear of destroying something. Don't know if it's threaded on, but that's my guess.

My goal is to completely break the thing down and see what I have to work with when I'm done. I sure would be interested in your spare drive if I can round out the missing parts.

Thanks,
Sean

Does anyone have mechanical drawing, or even photos, of a Walter RV-10S V-drive? I have found the ones of the RV10D and the RV10D "Pearson Special," but nothing about this particular unit.

Thank you!

After partially disassembling my RV10  I have found the following issues. Perhaps you all can advise me on next steps:

There was water in the drive, but not a lot. And I don't know if the rusty mud colored stuff that came out was leftover from before the last time I drained and replaced the oil. I did not flush the drive thoroughly - didn't know better but should have.

The bearings show some light rust, though the inside of the unit actually looks pretty clean. The gears are clean.

Where the machined drive shaft  (the comes out of the double-walled shaft) plugs in through the front seal into the matching toothed socket, which, I assume, must is attached to to the internal Universal joint, the socket definitely shows some significant surface rust and the shaft itself is pitted significantly. Too much so to be healthy mate to a new seal.  My theory is the shaft rusted because of water dripping on it (from where? - I'm putting money on a leaky icebox, which partly overhangs this area - the drain hose comes down quite near the vdrive). The combination of rust and time wore out the front seal, and the chinese water torture eventually worked its way past the seal, into the precious geared socket, and then, throughout the drive. This would explain why the front socket and drive shaft are the rustiest spots on the drive, and also why the previous owner took the the trouble to cut the floor out from under the icebox, but never finished the job of repairing it. This may have been around the time I bought the boat.

I pressure tested the Vdrive heat exchager - hooked up a water hose to one end and plugged the other - and never a drop escaped the circuit. I don't believe it got in from there. The boat is in nearly pristine condition below decks, and the combing, cabinetry and engine show no sign of water invasion, so I'm certain she was never submerged to the depth of the Vdrive.

So, from what I've learned here:
Shaft and double cardan (Pete)  - $650
New housing and bolts (Walter Marine) - $400
Rebuild kit $330 - (skier842)
Misc bearings ($$$)
Rebuild labor ($600 ?)

It looks like I'm in for at least $1,500, plus labor - I figure about the price of a new one and then some when all is done.

Walter is resistant to selling me anything without a serial number, but I really don't want to ship my old drive just for the sake of ID, just to pay to ship it back to hang onto spare parts. Does anybody know if Walter will discount anything for the core if I trade it in? If not I'd just assume skip that step and order a new drive.

Anyone have a serial number for a their own drive that will be a good match?

I have confirmed that the drive has a 2:1 ratio, BTW.

Thanks,
Sean

That's super helpful. Thank you.

Sorry to post so many new threads, but I'm trying to break these down so that they're easy to find and reference for other users.

I've come across what looks to be a very clean Paragon transmission that could be just the ticket for spares. Given the state of my V-drive, I'm expecting the fun surprises to continue, so wouldn't mind having this in the bank, as it were. The seller doesn't know much about this unit:  says it's an SA0120, specification number Z7973, ts serial number is ?? 5074, gear ratio 2:1. I'm trying to identify what that is. It looks tantalizingly like my P365's transmission, and I suspect it's at least very close, but can't make sense of the "120". From what I've seen here, our tranny is referred to as an SAOD.  Does anybody know the corresponding numbers off our transmission or what the numbers on this one mean?

In the process of removing my V-drive and had to remove the Walter tubular drive shaft to remove the toothed solid-steel drive shaft.  Removing the drive shaft from the v-drive end of the tubular shaft was quite a challenge, but the combination of penetrant and patience eventually got it free without any damage.  The tubular shaft has some significant rust, and needs to be refinished. While I'm doing this, I figure I should inspect/service the U-joints.

What do I need to know about the bearings in this joint? Should they be replaced/serviced? This joint in general, looks like a potential point of failure, although I haven't noticed any problems yet. The whole thing has a fine patina of rust and I would like to clean these parts up and repaint them. Given the rust on the joints,  I'm worried about the condition of the bearings. Better to deal with it now than later. The bearings appear to be held in place by heavy spring clips. I would like some insight before I pull any of this apart.

Thanks

Thank you. As usual, this site is a wealth of indispensable help and I appreciate all the good feedback.

I'm going to open up the drive and take a close hard look to see if this thing is worth salvaging. Seems doubtful.

The cast housing of the drive has two vertical adjustment bolts through tapped shoulder flanges on the main housing, above the studs. One of these flanges is broken/corroded off. Walter says I'll need to purchase a new main housing to replace it ($385, plus studs and other hardware"), so I figure about $400 for that part alone. I have no idea if it's even possible to weld a new flange in place. But the total cost, considering the obvious need for seals, bearings, and the probability of other wear and tear as yet undiscovered, seems likely to put this whole thing at close enough to the price of a brand new drive ($2277), that buying a new one is where I'm leaning, as much as I'd rather not spend that money.

Unfortunately, I'm finding a fair number of Walter RV10D drives on the ebay/craigslist market, but neither hide nor hair of "pearson special" version. As pointed out by PeteW, the direct-drive RV10, is  not like the Pearson Special model. Neither is the RV10D. The latter has a continuous rounded top and there is no opening on top to accommodate the heat exchanger . The side-mounted cooling ports of the standard RV10D clearly will poke directly into the sides of the bilge and there's no way elbows could fit. Given the design and the shape it's meant to fit into, it is easy to understand why Walter had to create a Pearson Special edition to work in this boat. In theory, Walter could have created a heat exchanger with the hose ports in front, rather than at the sides, which might have solved the fit problem, but they opted to move the cooler to the top of the housing, instead. This design gives us  easier access, and gives the hoses better clearance, but it means we are married to a very hard to find and expensive spare part. Since nobody else used them, they are non-existent on the aftermarket.

My old Walter V-Drive (Pearson 365, hull number eight)  looks about as sorry as a piece of machinery can. Corroded, paint in patches, oil the color of hershey's milk chocolate, but not half as sweet, height adjusting bolt shoulder rusted/sheared away, drive shaft rusty and at least slightly grooved at the seals, beloved brass ID plate  torn away with only a tiny shard still held in place by a single lonely rivet. The poor thing sprays oil all over the underbelly of the sole and into the bilge every time I let the prop run.  I was contemplating a Life Flight to Walter and  rebuild, but having extracted her oxidized, rattling hulk from the boat and taken a proper look in the harsh light of day,  I think it would be unkind to prolong the suffering. Extraction, by the way, was almost as easy as merely lifting up on the unit - the mounting brackets were rusted through and literally crumble between my fingers. Good thing I didn't try to go anywhere. Time to put a bullet in her, I think, and put us both out of our misery.

Enough with the moral dilemma of euthanasia. The question is now, what's my best option for replacement?

The boat's Westerbeke runs strong and still has some years in her, I hope, so I don't want to factor too strongly a possible re-power in my decision. That said, $2,200 or so for a brand-new drive is a lot to spend, when there's a haulout, paint upper and lower,  and new standing rigging already on the calendar.

I have located a couple of different RV10D drives that look to be in good shape -at 1/3 the price of new -  but these are the "standard" version, which have the heat exchanger on the bottom, not the "Pearson Special" edition that we all know and ruefully love. That said, they are also set up for bolting directly to a transmission, rather than using our over-priced double-jacketed drive shaft. (My tubular shaft, pardon the expression,  seems OK - it's only the machined rod that fits into the drive that's a goner.)  Has anybody jury rigged one of these "non-special" RV10D's, or any other drive,  to fit their Pearson?

Any other thoughts or advice?

Thank you.

I own an Eccotemp L5 on-demand water heater that I purchased for surfing/windsurfing trips -- it's really an amazing gadget for $150.

http://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l5-portable-tankless-water-heater/

It generates and unlimited amount of scalding hot water, using a 12v washdown pump, and a standard propane bottle. It uses a "D" battery to fire an automatic piezoelectric igniter and to control the on-demand gas valve.  I have it setup as a portable kit,  with the pump mounted to the inside of the lid of a "tupperware" storage container. All the hoses and cables fit in the box. I take them out when I set up the shower, fill the storage container from a nearby available fresh water source, and flip the lid over so the pump is on top. The pump plugs into a cigarette lighter, the hose pulls water out of the container, and the heater hangs from a bar I poke into my truck's roof rack. Voila! Portable hot shower. Everyone loves this on cold, foggy surfing days. The best is using it to warm up you wetsuit BEFORE you get in the drink...and it's much warmer than peeing in your suit!

As much as I like this device for car camping and water sports, I have my doubts about using a propane heater in the boat. There are all the usual hazards associated with propane, and the heater itself needs to be hung somewhere well ventilated. A good amount of heat/exhaust comes out the top of the unit. Not sure where you could set this up neatly in a P365, although I have thought about bringing the unit along for after-windsurfing warmups in the cockpit, and simply hanging it off the stern rail, to avoid any gas leak hazard.

I expect there are on-demand units made for boats, that deal with the ventilation and propane-hazard concerns.  However, I just don't think I want to risk another propane appliance on the boat as  a permanent installation. (Currently, I have an alcohol stove to keep it utterly simple.)

I'm planning to replace my rusted-out 6-gallon Raritan water heater in my ketch. Has anyone replaced theirs? What make and model do you recommend (or suggest avoiding)? I would like to drop in a higher-capacity tank, if possible, since I do a lot of kayaking and windsurfing in our chilly San Francisco waters and I'm looking forward to using my boat as the mother ship -- it would be great to have luxurious warmup shower afterwards.

Also, someone here is selling a Seaward S1200 unit that's never been installed. Trouble is, the heat exchanger ports are on the back side -- the F1200 has ports on the front --  (also, I'm not sure it will fit through the hatch, yet.) Anyone see any problem with mounting this with the heat exchanger fittings pointing at the engine and the water /electrical elements facing the hull, or vice versa? I'd obviously have to modify/extend some hoses and add a couple of elbows, but I can't see any obvious reason why that would cause a problem.

Thanks!
Sean

Wow Garner,
Another great tip about the hot water heater. Thank you. I'm going to go over the system and see how it conforms to the service bulletin.

I took the fresh water heat exchanger off, rinsed out the rotten zinc crumbs, scraped out the heat exchanger tubes and ran water through the whole system to make sure it was running smoothly. It was. I replaced the zinc.  Then I added 50/50 antifreeze/water to the reservoir, making sure all the air was able to bubble out of the system and that the reserve tank was mostly full before I closed it up...and...success! Temp now runs steady at 180-ish, by the gauge, even when I revved her up in the slip for an hour (in gear) and then went for an hour-long cruise in the Bay. I suspect both the gummed up heat exchanger, and the possibility that I hadn't completely filled the  coolant system, as the combined culprits.

Somebody did some interesting plumbing on the fresh water/water heater circuit  on this boat. The coolant reservoir is mounted just under the starboard hatch, directly above the water heater tank, and well above the rest of the engine -- it's the highest point in the whole system. I'm not sure if this is normal - the boat mechanic I had come look at my ruptured oil cooler was surprised to see it. Clearly,  I have to add coolant from this point, or the system doesn't fill completely.

Sean

The saga continues...

After successfully replacing the oil cooler on my Westerbeke 4-107, I changed out all the fluids. New oil filter, new 15w-40 diesel-rated oil, new antifreeze. Engine starts right up. Took her out for a test drive. Outside the harbor, I opened her up. About a mile out, temperature had pegged to the top of the guage -- 220+.

Killed the motor, dropped anchor, and took apart the raw water pump, even though I was getting a steady stream+spurt out of the exhaust . Impeller looked fine, but I replaced it anyway. Added some coolant to the resevoir. That took long enough for the engine to cool, so I started up -- water flow still looked good -- and I and I limped back in at barely over idle, still close to red-lining on the temperature, between 210-220.

So far, I've taken out the heat exchanger. Zinc was totally rotten away, and there were chips rattling around inside, but the cooler looks otherwise OK. I've flushed a substantial pile of zinc crumbs out and plan to ream it out with a rod later today, to make sure all the tubes are clear. There's a solid flow through the unit if I run water into one side -- it comes through and out the other no problem in both the fresh and saltwater circuits.

I know the gummed up exchanger could bee the main source of the problem -- but what else do I need to do or check? Is it possible there is air trapped that I need to bleed -- maybe in the hot water tank circuit? Also, i'd like to replace the thermostat for good measure, but the Westerbeke manual (Service Bulletin 107) specifies that the Thermostat needs to have a " bypass hole sufficient to allow adequate water flow through the exhaust manifold...", and cautions to use only the original Westerbeke part. The original part is unavailable, of course. Has anyone replaced theirs that can recommend a good unit to use? The one I can find that's supposed to match is a Sierra 23-3653. Does this need modification?