Pearson 365 and 367

I never did update this thread, but I put in a Lasdrop Gen 2 and really like it.  I have the seal just vented.  Even though at our speeds the mfr doesn't require cooling, I intend to hook it up to the raw water circuit for lube and cooling as I work on the raw water circuit.

I've only got a short amount of motoring time on it, but I am pleased so far.  We'll have to see how it performs when I really get a chance to put some hours on it motoring.

Cheers and thank you to all that replied.

I am going to go ahead and drop an order for new Lewmar winches in the West Marine BOGO - only a few days left.  I know, I know, inflated list price, etc - but my research is that on the BOGO, these are still a good deal.

I only bought the boat last year.  My current winches are not self tailing and for single handed or short handed, the self tailing would be super nice.  Old school cruiser, under powered by today's standards.

The boat:  Pearson 365 ketch; 100% roller furler = 308 sq ft/28.6 m^2; main: 212 sq ft/19.7m^2
Current Primary:  43 (two, of course)            Main/cabin top:  16 (one only)

I want to put two 16s on the cabin top and eventually some rope clutches.
 
?     Questions - your thoughts     ?

1- Aluminum or chromed bronze?  I'm thinking chrome bronze, but the aluminum drum is probably less $.  I was thinking chrome looks better on the old school boat, but maybe I should worry.

2- According to Lewmar's size chart, with the 100%, I sit right in the middle of winch size 40.  But, if I had (which I don't at this time) a 150% (460 sq ft), that really puts it more to a 46 size or really at the far side of their recommendation for a 40. 

Do you think it's worth the extra $ and then Ocean or EVO?  Divide price show in 1/2 for the BOGO...

Ocean 40, chrome, $1650
EVO 45, chrome, $1900
Ocean 46, chrome, $2200

Tom

(I cross posted that in Cruisers Forum.  Then after posting I added this reply to the above post:)

Having written and posted that, then thinking of my own statement, "old school cruiser"

As a cruiser - reef early... With that said, I'm really thinking the Ocean 40 size is fine for my purposes.

Can anyone dissuade me from that decision? In reality, the price diff isn't huge over the live of the winches - but I could still spend the savings on other boat candy!

Just was looking at the offerings at West Marine and Englund.

Does anyone know what diameter or size I need for what I am assuming is a original stuffing box.  1/4", 1/2"

Would I use same for the rudder stuffing box?  I don't plan to touch it, it is dry as a bone.  It would be good to have some on hand for later use if needed!

Anyone have experience with this?  It is substantially more than flax with PTFE, but still less than a PSS or Tides!  Green "Moldable" packing.

Flax with Teflon

Western Pacific's flax with PTFE

Thanks Dirk, still not sure what to do, but a truly 'dust dry' bilge would be nice.  Maybe go w/ the teflon packing and consider a Tides Marine or PSS next time!

This is from a packing thread at the cruisersforum.com by Jim Cate: "To the contrary, on our previous boat we had a conventional stuffing box. I replaced the flax with a teflon coated packing and used the special grease that West Marine sold to be used in such affairs. This set up ran cool to the touch and with no static and very little running leakage... for over a decade of full time cruising. Never even needed adjusting once run in. I'd use it again without hesitation in a conventional box."

Congrats on the primer on the Melges!

Dale, can you confirm stern tube is 2-1/4" OD?  All my research says it is. 

Do you have any strong aversion for the dripless shaft seals or a good experience of one versus another? I was going to go ahead and put a dripless shaft seal.  I know a lot of people use the traditional and I could repack, but was thinking of just replacing with a dripless.  Not cheap, but also not too dear $. 

I just got a call 10 minutes ago from the Sherwin-Williams store in Coos Bay.  My 5000HS epoxy is in.  Waiting still on the ablative paint.  Now I just have to hope for a weather window and time off work!

Well, that didn't work.  Here are links:

Sitting on stands:  https://flic.kr/p/2p5mbKQ

Getting blasted:  https://flic.kr/p/2p5kHAZ

Let's see if I can make this work!

Here's Gypsy just after being set down by the TravelLift:


And here it is, 4 days later.  Dustless Blasting is just starting the first section.

Update:

Last week I spent a long few days scraping.  The boat was actually surprisingly clean for not being out for a few years.  It cleaned up really pretty darned good with the pressure wash in the slings.

Some dimples along the waterline where muscles may have attached earlier and popped gelcoat when scraped, but amazingly, I found NO blisters!

The first layer of black bottom paint scraped and chipped off well.  Messy, but it came off.  The next layer was a red that almost seemed to polish when I scraped.  I used nice carbide blade Bahco (Sandvig) and flipped the blade to the new edge when scraping got slower.

After the black there was a dark red layer.  I found that it just kind of polished and was not easily scraped with a sharp edge.  I then tried three different strippers, none were great.  I didn't order any of the strippers tested by Practical Sailor.  I had Bare-Z-All and bought a can of Sunnyside 2-Minute from the hardware store.

The Bare-Z-All is a nice thick almost custard consistency.  It is low odor, non-flammable and water rinse-able.  I tried both covered with plastic and uncovered.  I didn't give any of the strippers hours and hours, but pretty reasonable working time.  This worked as well as the solvent and highly stinky and flammable 2-Minute.

The 2 minute is the general gel consistency.  Mostly petroleum products and highly flammable.  You would not want to use this indoors.  Uncovered or covered, it really did little better than the Bare-Z-All.  I would not recommend this, if only for the hazardous flammable nature and the hazardous stench!

I'd be curious to see how the Soy Strip or other recommended strippers tested by Practical Sailor performed.  BUT, I simply realized I'd not the time nor the inclination to order strippers and spend more days upon days...

I hired the local (Brookings, Oregon) "Dustless Blasting," Ashton and Tony.  They have a mobile rig with a diesel compressor and use a wet blast system.  The water injection with the abrasive media does go a long way towards reducing the fine dust cloud.  It does still spread dirt around.  They setup tarp screens around the boat that further reduce the spread and are planning to fully enclose their own area at the boatyard in Brookings.

Ash went through 4 pots of abrasive, but the boat is pretty much ready to epoxy seal coat now.  The blasting found what are probably some small voids just under the original gelcoat and some ~iffy~ or just OK blister repairs.  I will clean these up and will refill with epoxy putty.  Not sure if I'll do it between the first and second barrier coats but more likely will do it before the first barrier coat.

I need to find a cloud place to stash some pics and I'll add those to the thread.

Dale - I didn't check my notes and had brain fade on the big Wilcox Crittenden seacocks.  These were the bloody cockpit drains.  I was able to get them apart and they now turn properly! 

I'm in pause because of a large storm coming through.  High winds and cooler temperatures.  Long term weather shows this passing and I should be able to work again in the second week of October.  I will likely only be able to do one layer a day, according to the drying/recoat time vs temperature graphs for products on the NST Center NAVSEA reviews.  This will mean I need 5 days or maybe 6 go get through 3 full epoxy barrier coats and 2 coats of bottom paint.  I'm considering a visqueen skirt and a propane or kerosene space heater to reduce the recoat times.

Cheers!
Tom

Hi all,

Can someone please confirm the stern tube diameter?  What I find in the forums is 2-1/4".  I'm not at the boat and cannot get there easily before ordering.

I've got the boat on the hard.  I think it would be a good time to change to a dripless seal when I change the prop.

Any opinion or experience with a dripless type?

I'm leaning towards the Tides Marine seal:
FSK-1125-2250-0

1 1/8" x 2 1/4"  Minimum Dist. 7 1/4"

The PSS is also an option, but I think I like the no moving parts of the Tides.  The PSS does have the advantage of being more tolerant of shaft surface finish and also no risk of wearing a groove in the shaft.

 PSS Shaft Seal, 1-1/8" Shaft - 2-1/4" Stern Tube
Mfg# 02-118-214

Another option, at a slightly lower price point, is the Lasdrop.
 DrySeal Shaft Seal for 1-1/8" Shaft, 2-1/4" Stern Tube, D-118-214
Mfg# D-118-214

Thanks,
Tom

The seacocks are the original Willcox Crittenden.  I planned to approach them first by rebuilding first.  Hopefully they will be fine once the boat is on the hard and I can pull them apart.  Unfortunately, there is not a chancellery in Brookings where the boat is moored and I plan to haul.  I'm trying to figure out the contingencies I can foresee and have parts on hand before I haul.

I just committed to 3 x 2 gallon kits of the Sherwin-Williams 5000 HS epoxy!  I'm setting up a commercial account and will get 2 gray and 1 white so I can alternate and hopefully achieve better coverage - no holidays!  6 gallons of material should ensure I get a good thick barrier coat.

My next concern is that I'm pushing this so late in the season, I may loose my weather window.  Worst case scenario is I haul, go zincs, prop, through hulls and leave the barrier coat for next season.

Now to go spend some more money on parts and supplies!

Cheers

Hi Dale,

"As you know, post bond with polyester has always been iffy and all of the gelcoat has got to go." 

Yeah, I may just use epoxy for any repairs that actually call for adding glass reinforcement.  Fortunately all modern glass materials have sizing that is epoxy, polyester, vinylester compatible.  I have both medium and some low viscosity resin.  The low viscosity epoxy (RAKA) will probably wet out and work as easily as polyester.

Update on barrier coat...  I do realize the 2000E will likely lay down much nicer than a thicker barrier coat, but I'm not too worried about that, we're not looking at a course burning race boat.  I am still leaning towards the SeaHawk TuffStuff, but I talked with the Sherwin-Williams industrial coating engineer today, we're going to connect again tomorrow.  I might consider the Sherwin-Williams "5000 HS".

Couple of questions for things I need to get before hauling out.

1. Both port and stb raw water (cooling) seacocks seem frozen.  In your experience, do you think this will disassemble and clean up or should I plan to replace them?  If I should have new seacocks on hand, what size are the seacocks and hoses?  The boat is 2-1/2 hours away and I won't be heading there until I go to haul it.

2. I am really considering a Kiwi Prop.  17" 3-blade.  I just wanted to confirm the 1-1/8" shaft size.  There seems to be a discrepancy in the old scanned owner manual parts list.  The shaft p/n 11453 is described "PROP SHART, 1" X 90".  The propeller itself is p/n 13228 with the description, "PROPELLER, 3-BLAD, 17 X 10 X 1-1/8 BORE"

Is the prop 1-1/8 bore?  I know there are some that really have liked the Kiwi and some that hate it, just as some have had good success with CoperCoat anti-fouling and others that curse it.  I know that my mileage may vary, but I think it would be nice to have a feathering or folding prop and this is the best time for me to do that.

cheers!

Hi,

I'm getting ready to haul Typsy Gypsy.  I have a large list of tasks for a couple of weeks of hard labor.  The boat hasn't been out of the water in years, I think.  I just became the latest caretaker at the end of this June.

I'm expecting to find some blisters.  Hopefully nothing more than the gelcoat pimples that I've seen in photos from others doing the bottom on their 365.  Praying for nothing or only a little more! 

I have a lot of experience from back in the day working on the boats from the mid → late 80s that were made with the fire resistant resins that were so prone to osmosis damage.  I worked at SeaView Marine in Ballard, Washington.  I've got many hours under boats doing structural repairs, filling, fairing, sealing.  We used the full Interlux system then.

I'm planning to use Sea Hawk products, Tuff Stuff as the barrier coat (similar to Interlux 2000e but thicker.)  I have just had a great call with Tony B, technical sales for Sea Hawk in Seattle.  The plan is to apply 3 layers of Tuff Stuff to get a 12 mil or maybe thicker barrier coat.  (0.012"/0.30mm)

I'm interested in anyone has experience using paint stripper to prepare an old bottom.
 > How much stripper did you need?  1 gallon? 2 gallons? 5 gallons?
 > What brand stripper did you use?  Did you like it?

The paint stripper from Sea Hawk is MORE $$ than the bottom paint and about as much as the Tuff Stuff epoxy barrier coat! 

Can anyone recommend how much stripper I will need?

I am planning on the stripper (step 3) because like refinishing the topsides or painting a car, you have to ensure all wax and any silicone from polish is removed.  You want to remove this before sanding so you don't grind these contaminants into the existing finish.  Talking with Tony B, I want to use the stripper to the same end to ensure my barrier coat adheres properly.

The paint stripper from Sea Hawk costs as much at the Tuff Stuff epoxy and more than their bottom paint per gallon!  I want to have enough, but not buy more than needed.

My plan is:
1. Have the underbody pressure washed while in the slings
2. Manually scrape the entire bottom.  I have few new 2-1/2" Sandvic scrapers with carbide blade.  (my arms and back hurt already just thinking about this!)
3. Apply paint stripper and remove wash per instructions
4. Sand underbody with DA900/DAQ/long board with 60 or 80 grit
5. Any required structural repair with polyester resin, mat, roving, cloth as needed
6. Fair as needed with epoxy putty.  Probably make my own with epoxy & silica powder & maybe some micro-balloons (maybe no micro-balloons since they are to make sanding easier and hopefully sanding will be minimal 'cause my application is spot on!  )
7. Acetone wipe
8. 3 coats of Tuff Stuff

9. Sea Hawk Sharkskin or Tropicoat or maybe CopperCoat for bottom paint.

Thanks,
Tom

Hi Dale, thank you for the welcome!  Been another busy week at work work!  Damn that work from keeping me from my play.  Work and the damned fire - I'm only about 60 miles from the the Smith River fire complex.  So when I wasn't at my j-o-b, I was building mew box fan filters.  I've gotten good with duct tape and furnace filters!

But, I think I get to play with sails and sewing machines this weekend.  Get ready to take them back to the boat, if the fire allows.  Right now US-199 is closed in both directions because the fire is burning on both sides.

Quote from: Dale Tanski on August 22, 2023, 06:39:04 AMThe only thing you didn't touch on in your first post is the fuel tank which is one of the more challenging items to replace.  If you are lucky it has already been replaced.

I'm lucky one of the PO did the tank.  It has a nice aluminum tank in place.  They also put in a nice heat exchanger water heater and started replumbing with PEX. 

Quote from: Dale Tanski on August 22, 2023, 06:39:04 AMThe mast step issue has many ways to be solved it just depends on your skill set. Keep in in mind, the basic factory steel version typically lasted 40 years. Are you going to need it to do its job longer than that? Each item is just another check box on a list.  Enjoy the journey and don't forget to go sailing along the way.

Good point.  I have some 1/2" aluminum plate big enough to cut the base plate.  I'm intending to bend some 1/4" 6061 for the "heel" and "toe" cups and weld those to the plate.  I have TIG so doing that is in my wheelhouse. I do have some concern of movement from weld heat.  I think that I can manage that with careful heat control.  I hopefully won't have to do much or any straightening/flattening of the base plate. 

I'll keep you all posted on the progress and will share my design to add to the mast step knowledge base!

Now, off to walk the dog while the AQI sits at a pleasant 155.  Considering we've been over 300, 150-160 rates as a nice morning!   

Cheers,
Tom

I don't have measurements off my boat, though should have them soon when I get back out there...  This is somewhere on my work list.

From the Parts Catalog, 10-1-1977:
HALYARD, MAIN, 3/16 ss wire 42', 7/16 yacht braid 44' 1/4 swage (scan unclear on size, zooming PDF, I'm guessing 1/4)  (wait for it... list price, 1977  $115.44)

HALYARD, MIZZEN, 1/8 ss wire 32', 3/8 yacht braid 30', halyard shackle  (list price, 1977 $73.14)

My $0.02:  If I were looking to switch to Dyneema or STS rope, look carefully at the strengths. For standing rigging I know that Coleego has tables for wire/dyneema equivalence based on stretch.  This is what really leads to the dyneema being 3 or 4 x the strength of the original ss wire for standing rigging.  For halyards, I don't think you would need to use the same stretch criteria.

I would look at size fits your sheaves, what size feels good to handle and what size matches equivalent working load/factor of safety.  And for halyards, I wouldn't feel the safety factor is the same as for standing rigging. (Which ends up oversized on ultimate strength for a large safety factor when sized by stretch.)

Lengths adjusted as needed if you're going to route to the cockpit, which is my goal.

Cheers,
Tom

Hi all, new-b here!

Can't really say, "Long time listener, first time caller..."  More like, "Short time lurker, first time poster!"

I purchased hull # 146, current name "Typsy Gypsy."  The CG-1270 form was signed and notarized this past June.

I'm getting ready to start a bunch of work and so you'll see me popping up and asking advise all over the forum!  I'm really looking forward to getting her sound enough to go sailing.  Right now she is a harbor queen. 

I know PO took her out and maybe it's fine, but I'm a bit leery until I can do things like shut the raw water intake and return for the engine.  Getting ready to fabricate my version of the mast step replacement and I need to do the standing rigging.  The port main upper shroud has at least 1 meat hook and I found a meat hook on the mizzen too - I just don't trust the standing rig and risking the mast is not worth it...  A large but pretty expected work list!

Anyway, glad to be here.  Excited to find a small but still active and friendly community with a lot of DIY!

Cheers,
Tom