OMG the captain has been shopping again online. Raymarine, Garmin, Simrad. He vows and declares we have to have new autopilot, radar, chart plotter, weather, wind, depth, and we have to get it NOW. Rocky had none of these when we bought her last June, we have been using a $79 fishfinder for depth which works pretty good. He spent 2 days and nights working up 2 spreadsheets to compare systems. The first compares Garmin, Simrad/Navico and Raymarine. Initially he was hot on Simrad, then changed to definitely Garmin, now definitely Raymarine. The second puts together a Raymarine system that he is SURE is the right one to give us a good system without going "top of the line". We will be doing local and coastal cruising until I retire in 2013 and then plan to take off for wherever the wind takes us. Any thoughts from you experienced sailors???
Welcome aboard!
I went the Simrad route. I have a WP32 (wheel pilot) which is no longer available. It is head and shoulders above the Ray wheel pilot however in construction. I have the CX33 which is the 6" chartplotter which is no longer available as well. It is small enough to mount on the wheel roll bar and not be in the way. I also have the IS20 wind. This I purchased to tie in with the WP32 so that it will steer off of the wind angle, it works very nicely.
Everything is on the Simrad network which makes it plug and play. I also have a Simrad triducer which gives us depth, speed through the water and water temperature.
I had trouble with the IS20 instrument head but they sent me a new one after 2 years no problem. I do not like the fact that the wind speed digits are not backlit.
We also have a older 1621 Furuno radar which has been serviced once and is currently dead.
We also have a backup DART system which is one of Datamarines last systems. It gives me backup for depth, speed, temperature and battery buss voltage.
All in all I am happy with what we have and feel no need for anything else or any more features.
Pandragon put in a nice Garmin wind system. There is a video in the pictures section.
Good sailing...
Dale
We coastal cruise in Texas and really don't need any of those items except depth. We do have a Simrad autopilot that mostly works. No radar, we don't really have much fog, either. Wind direction and wind speed is by the seat of our britches (or by the brush on the cheek). We have the usual instruments because they were on Phantom when we purchased her and replaced those as they failed with ones that fit the holes to keep her good looking. We still only need the depth sounder, everything else is icing.
All those systems are intricate, delicate and really prone to failure when you would least want the failure. We have a Half/Half sailing philosophy...Half modern/half Pardey-style. It fits us well...
Why not go another year before deciding what you really need? Try to differentiate between what is really needed and what is really wanted. I want a Hinckley Bermuda 40, I need a Pearson 365.
I never thought I would ever need Radar. It came with the boat. What I found out is if you sail at night or in inclement weather it is a very useful item. You can see navigation buoys in the black of night in 6 footers from miles away, and ping their range. Better still it is nice to be able to match your chart to outlines and details on the radar screen. You can identify a coastal outline in a blinding line squall or find that entrance gap in a sea wall from a mile out.
We do not have a lot of shipping were we typically sail but it is sure nice to have the radar beep when a bulk carrier traveling at 25 kts enters your zone. Most are very well lit but others (barge boats) are not. We have been in areas where we were in a defined channel and have 6 or 7 steel behemoths on the screen yet still not be able to clearly identify them by site due to shore clutter lights. We have never been in fog.
I have found that looking aloft at our lighted windex hour after hour is tough on the neck, but when the wind is behind and you have the kite up it is better to know its direction using the IS20 wind than to accidentally gybe the chute at night.
I never thought we would ever use anything that would tell us the water temperature, we are a long way from the Gulf stream. What I found is that there are places you can determine abrupt bottom shelves by the change in water temperature. Our bottom is very unforgiving. For the most part all of the bottom features are rock followed by more rock. We have places where 3 miles off shore and there are "rocks" the size of city blocks that are only arm pit deep. This is why we have a depth sounder and back up redundant system.
We carry paper charts but would not be without the chartplotter. Christopher made it across the big pond with a length of line and a lead weight. The Atlantic coast is littered with guys that tried the same thing. I would agree, think it through carefully. There is nothing worse than too little information on a dark dark night.
In contrast, on our race boat we carry nothing except a crappy compass that has a huge air bubble in it. We know where we are, know where we want to go and race in a relatively small space. Instrumentation can not out preform the experienced sailor for optimizing boat speed unless it is distance racing. Wind direction at the mast head is often different than at the deck and those subtle differences can mean a boat length at the end of 5 miles and ultimately 1st or also ran.
As for cruising, coastal navigation is the most challenging as it is the least forgiving. Yea, you may be able to literaly walk away from your mistake but that too is rare. I would consider a chartplotter that shows depth the bare minimum if you leave sight of your marina, especially at night. Today you can purchase a chartplotter with depth and hull speed capabilities for what you would pay for depth/wind/speed in separate instruments and still not know where you are, where you have been and where you are headed.
Dale
Thanks for all the good input. I think we are convinced we need to go ahead and install a good system. Maybe we can actually learn to use it before we take off in 2013. Still trying to decide between Simrad, Furuno, Raymarine, Garmin.
Just learn how to do without any of it. Your boat, your life, and your wife will be much better if you hae those skills.
I suspect Jim rides a horse, has no electricity in the house and many pages are missing out of the old phone book. It is better to have the resources and never use them, than to not have the resources and need them. Then again people think I am crazy because I am a prepper.
If you decide on a manufacture that offers plug and play, you can start simple and add as you see fit.
Dale
Note to Jim S -- Ralph does know to navigate using charts, parallel rule, compass, and we are using a handheld GPS. I have studied it and can do some but am learning as fast as I can. Unfortunately he is a gadget nut! Knowing him he will use old and new "technology" concurrently. Never can be too sure, don't rely on one method exclusively. Maybe this comes from his Navy training??? Plus it will be just us 2 and no more probably on a crossing or two, he feels we need the extra "hands" of autopilot. Radar is non negotiable. He has studied it for a couple years now and is ready for the hardware. We Love a challenge and something we can be hot on together besides each other!!!
Note to Dale --Furuno 1834CNT, Simrad HLD2000L, Simrad 2802 SIMAP2802 control package, Furuno WS200, whaddya think?
Horses are a little too ludite for me and I do like the electrons running through the household circuits. We just like the feel and the freedom of how it felt 30 years ago when we first started sailing. Since we don't need the devices, we don't have them.
Well, well... Lots to cover here, so let's get started.
Furuno 1834 - I love the fact that the radar is overlayable on to the chart, if you opt for the heading sensor. I wish I had this feature. That way you can see what is supposed to be (chart) and what really is (radar). I know this is becoming more and more available but this is the way to go. I assume that the 5 vertical buttons with only dots are to toggle from one screen to another but they are not marked and I didn't find a good explanation on that feature anywhere. A 24" dome is big. Is your boat a ketch or sloop? If it is a single sticker you will probably have to go to a post mount with a 24" dome. Me personally, the 10" display makes me squirm from a size issue on the pedestal. That box is 9" high, 14" wide and 7" deep! Here is what a 6" unit looks like outside of the catalog page.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/dtskibo/DSC00849.jpg)
I custom cut the roll bar to make it fit in proportion with the pedestal. You can barely see the joint just below the stainless mounting bracket. I cut about 4" out and added an internal sleeve to put it all back together again.
Simrad makes the NSE8 which comes in an 8" screen. This unit is only 8"H x 11"W x 5" D. Do not under estimate mounting, seeing and moving around a big box. I understand the aging eye thing believe me and size does matter. The NSE8 looks like it comes standard in HD which might make up for a smaller display. I would have/like to see them side by side for a comparison. I also like the two speed antenna rotation speed for additional clarity and higher refresh rates.
HLD2000 - Looks bullet proof to me. I like the all in one configuration. Four bolts and the pivot pin and the whole thing is out and in a better place for maintenance and troubleshooting. You cannot do that if the pump is remote and connected via hoses unless they are very long. I would rather work on it at the nav station than cramped up in the rear lazerette in 6 foot chop in the dark. If you invested in an extension cable you could cycle it at the nav station! I have heard nothing bad on these units what so ever.
Simrad AP2802 - If you are going with the Simrad actuator stick with the Simrad throughout the pilot system. There is no chance of strange quirks and finger pointing during installation and warranty/service work.
Furuno WS200 - Someone else makes one of these star wars sensors but I can't remember who. Without a doubt the fact that it has no moving parts is a big plus. The high price and the odd chance you could kiss a bridge with it would be a real bummer. I say this because I twanged my VHF whip on a bridge in the Chesapeake and that was scary enough. I love this type of technology, it is the future for sure. It would also be nice if it had a anti-bird point on it.
I have just gone back and reread both the Furuno and Simrad plotter/radar heads. From the aspect of integration I would stick with all one brand. From what I read the Simrad unit has the autopilot software on board and may negate the need for the AP28 but I will leave that up to you to really figure out.
It was fun for me to look, learn and dream. What ever you chose, think it all through very carefully. Look into service here as well as there and everywhere in between. My Simrad stuff is built very well and with the exception of the IS20 head, the wind direction needle on the display would began to wander after a prolonged period of time. I discovered this by observing the real wind direction and looking at the virtual wind display available on my chart plotter and finding that the virtual display was correct and the mechanical needle was way off. Because the data on the network was correct from the masthead vane, the autopilot worked just fine. Like I said the service people were wonderfull. The looked the unit over and could not make the unit repeat what it did for me (of course) and a year later sent me a brand new unit when it happened during the second season.
Good luck and stay in touch, and let me know which way you are leaning, I feel invested.
Dale
Dale, OK here's what we ordered. If you feel truly invested please make check payable to .....
Ongoing debate = fixed vs gimballed radome mount, what do you and others think? Also which mast, main or mizzen, and how high up??
SIMRAD NX45 NAVSTATION 12 inch
SIMRAD DX64S RADOME 48 mi - 4kw
SIMRAD IS20 WIND MARINE INSTRUMENT
SIMRAD IS20 TACK MARINE INSTRUMENT
SIMRAD B744V DEPTH/SPEED/TEMP TRANSDUCER
SIMRAD IS20 COMBI MARINE INSTRUMENT
SIMRAD AP2802 MARINE AUTOPILOT
SIMRAD HLD2000L DRIVE UNIT
AP28 control included
SIMRAD AC42 AUTOPILOT COMPUTER
SIMRAD RC42 RATE COMPASS
RF300ROTARY RUDDER
Very impressive!
Unfortunately I used my last check yesterday.
I vote mizzen mount all the way. Your headsail will play havoc with the dome with each tack. The only issue would be are you ever going to have a wind turbine? If so, you will have to take that into account when you mount the dome. There are several mizzens on 365s sporting both.
Note to who ever is installing, it would be a good thing to include a plug in the radardome cable where it goes through the deck to make dropping the stick that much easier.
As for the mount, normally I would say a static mount is all you would need. In your case, seeing as you went for a 48 mile reach, the gambolled mount might just pay for itself in order to acheave your maximum reach when you are heeled. The disadvantage is work hardening the cables and early failure.
Dale