Hello all, I feel that Lola (#67) has a bit excessive weather helm with breezes above 10 knots. This was with main and 150 jib only. What is the conventional wisdom on this. I am new to ketches. Would the mizzen help balance a bit? The weather helm concerns me with ideas of more longer offshore jaunts coming up with a limited number of crew and endurance. Thanks!
yes the mizzen balances the rig, with a little adjustment you can let go of the wheel for quiet some time. whithout the mizzen it is to say the least squirrely; seems like weather helm on some points and lee helm on other points. Use the mizzen.
If you balance your sailplan, the boat will sail unattended for miles and miles in winds above 5 to 7 kts and below 15 or so. Above 15 I typically hand steer but I am sure with practice the boat will self track in higher wind speeds as well.
The design of the rudder blade also induces weather helm. The skeg design does not allow any turnable area blade ahead of the rudder post. This means all of the steering load is unbalanced unlike a spade rudder. Although the skeg eliminates the ability to balance the rudder blade, it is you safeguard that the rudder will be there when you need it most.
Go out and practice adjusting the sail plan and locking the wheel.
Good Sailing... Dale
Thanks all - sounds like the mizzen can make a big difference in reducing weatherhelm. Appreciate the knowledge! Hop
Hi to all
first of all English is not mine native language but when I'm well informed is weather helm the action of a sailboat to steer itself into the wind. This is I think special in a gust of wind exactly what you want your boat to do.
for a few weeks ago I was sailing back home solo with only the 130% jib and Martha mine trusty autopilot was steering in a 17 to 20 knot wind. I noticed Marta was steering lee ward almost all the time to maintain a steady course. We where going upwind I think 70 to 60 degrees.
With only a 130% lib mine pearson is still wether helm only a smaller jib would place mine sailpoint more further which would make the boat more leeward helm. Setting mine mizzen sail would place mine sailpoint more aft which would increase weather helm I think.
What causes this weather helm. First of all the shape of the hull of our beauty, this shape is probably also the reason why we did fall in love with here ;D but when see heels when we hoist the sails the waterline length on her leeward side becomes longer and on her windward side becomes shorter and so the water at the leeward side has to go a longer route and resist to this and pushes our bow to windward.
Also the sails are important, age shape and trim. A 15 year old 130% jib (mine) how well maintained is probably not any more in the perfect shape to give the best forward trust with minimal heel. (5 knots boat speed).
So Yes the mizzen can be used to get the trim right, but it is not a cure it won't work on all courses and if your overall trim is not right or the shape of your sail is not good anymore it probably won't help you.
I'm still learning to handle this beauty ;)
lots of steady winds
Sikko
Thanks Dutchie. I really appreciate the input. I think I'm going to get out in some moderate winds (wishful think this summer in galveston Bay?) and just try different combinations. I love the way Lola sails and appreciate the speed over my old Cheoy Lee Offshore 28 (Luders) but this ketch can be a handful. More later... George
I did find some old printouts from the Internet and found a interresting article from Bill Shaw about tuning the Rig maybe this will give some answers concerning weather helm ;)
http://pearsoninfo.net/info/tuning_the_rig_by_bill_shaw.htm
Thanks again Ditchie - I appreciate the advice and this great article.
I always thought using the mizzen gave me more weather helm. Picturing the boat as a lever with the keel as the center of lateral resistance, pushing on the mizzen will force the bow up into the wind.
That being said, the only time I have noticeable weather helm is when I have too much sail up. I would try taking a reef in on either the main or the jib.
I think reefing a bit earlier is the key for Lola. Much better. Thanks again!
Not too sure how this will work on the Ketch but I think I am also about to try it, on my old Pearson 26 after having way too much weather helm I read my Annapolis Book of Seamanship on the topic.
Here is what it says in a nut shell mast rake aft increases weather helm forward increases lee helm.
On the 26 I adjusted the back stay and fore stay and reduced the rake aft increased it forward (was not many turns on the turn buckles) and I ended up with a neutral helm.
Moonlight Mile also suffers with I think excessive weather helm so I am going to try and adjust the back stay & fore stay and rake the main a little forward and see what happens, if it works great if not hey its an easy job to put it back. In about 10knts I have approaching half a wheel.
Annapolis says you should have a little weather helm but never lee helm!
Ed
Quote from: Lola on June 11, 2010, 01:39:15 PM
Thanks Dutchie. I really appreciate the input. I think I'm going to get out in some moderate winds (wishful think this summer in galveston Bay?) and just try different combinations. I love the way Lola sails and appreciate the speed over my old Cheoy Lee Offshore 28 (Luders) but this ketch can be a handful. More later... George
George: not to derail the thread, but I searched high and low around here to find the Offshore 28 and finally gave up. Great boats, I've read.
MF
If you have a traveller, a great way to reduce the weather helm, especially as you get off the wind a little, is to ease the traveller down a little. I have found that close hauled with the main sheeted in pretty good, that I can set the traveller about a third of the way to the lee side without twirling my tale-tells on the leech, and get a significant reduction in helm. If you are reaching, your main will perform better with the traveler all the way down anyways. If the wind continues to build, you can take the traveller up higher (no more than mid boat), but ease up on the sheet, causing the top of the leech to dump air (via boom lift), reducing your total pressure. It was a trick some of our Ensign sailors (with no reefs) taught me. Just look up as your doing this to get a feel for it....
JT