Hey there folks!! I have to say that I'm absolutely stoked to be here. I joined and commented a little while ago, but transitioning to boat life involves a lot of logistics (as I'm sure you are all aware), and they were stressing me out.
First, allow me to introduce myself. My name (as may be obvious) is Jordan. I'm a 35 year old Software Engineer by trade. The much better half is known on forums as MXT. She's a bit older than I am, and we've been together for 11 years last January. I did have about 5 "lost years", where I kind of fell apart completely. The end result of that was to leave Colorado in August of 2019. I flipped a coin, choosing between East and West coast of the US. West coast it was. However, MXT said it'd probably be better in Florida. She was going to follow me on this hair-brained adventure, and has fully adopted it, so I agreed. After lots of looking, in March, we purchased the boat known as KAPALA. So yeah, we bought a boat literally weeks after a pandemic was declared. KAPALA is a 1977 Pearson 365 Ketch, Hull #141. During the ~6 months of boat shopping in earnest (I had to find a job and a place to stay), Pearsons weren't really on our list. We were really eyeing the S2 11C (36' center cockpit) that seemed to hit all the boxes we had identified. We looked at a Catalina 30' first. Doable, but no room for our bikes (we are from Colorado, and she followed me out here with our bikes and a Nissan Versa worth of stuff - everything else was given away or sold), so we adjusted our length guidelines up to 38'. We looked at a few Hunters, a Jenneau, a Benneteau Pilothouse, and a few others.
But it was a single day that started the journey that wound up with me writing this from the cockpit of our boat. We broke down the boats we were interested in, used some Google Maps APIs to identify how far away each boat was, and grouped them so that we could see as many as we could on each trip. One grouping was about 2 hours North of Hollywood, Florida (where we rented a week by week place with free A/C and internet). There were 3 boats in that location, and the evening before, we had confirmation from all 3 owners. We woke up early, made some breakfast, and head out. We met the first guy, with a Pearson 365 Ketch (it may have even been a '77). Seeing a boat without a quarter berth was surprising, and we liked it. But this boat was at the higher end of our budget, plus there was no prop installed. While we were at the Marina, the boat next to us head out for a day of sailing. Also, one of the other 2 boats cancelled (as seems to happen in Florida), and when I told the next guy of our opened schedule, he suggested sailing (thanks Bruce!!). We agreed. He rowed out to a Pearson 35 on the hook. Besides Sunfish (which we learned how to sale a couple of weeks prior...followed by joining the Gulfstream Sailing Club right before coronavirus shut down the meetings) and theoretical knowledge (meh, I suppose some sailing on the Chatfield Reservoir in Colorado and Lake McConaughy in NE as a teen), I had no experience. I told this all to Bruce, and he proceeded to walk us through the steps required, and then we sailed. It didn't take long after the sail that we decided that boat wouldn't work for us. We saw 32' boats that had a layout that would work for us, but the Pearson 35 seemed too small. The funny thing was that each boat we saw thereafter was compared to the Pearson 365 in the marina. It was weird, but we felt the same way (granted, for me, sailing the 35 was my anchor, and the beam and salon on the 365 was hers). We kept looking. We drove further and further away. Trips to the keys, and we were planning a multi-day trip to the other coast, with about 10 boats to look at. But MXT noticed something. A boat we had looked at before (but our of our budget) that was close just dropped its price. She looked good! A Pearson 365 Ketch quite literally a 10 minute drive away from our sublet. And the boat was at a Marina we had looked at previously, and considered too expensive.
You know how they say that one buys a boat with their heart, and not their brain? Well, I kept waiting for it to happen, with every intention of smooshing down those feelings. It turns out it was more subtle than that. We'd been comparing boats to the earlier 365 we saw without being able to definitively say why. And when we stepped on board KAPALA, well, it just felt good. Not overwhelming, just good. It seemed like a good place. And considering our goal is to do a lot of off-grid cruising, a good place as our home seemed like a great idea.
Now, I've had this draft in progress for more than a week, but didn't complete it. Boat jobs took over. There are some major issues we're currently tackling, and I wanted to ask advice. But without a bit of background, I didn't feel right about it (that's my own thing, I know).
I'll make specific threads with specific questions relating to what we're tackling, but a quick look at the Effin' To Do List (this is what we've named the list of stuff to do...based on Brave or Stupid) shows that right now, I need to build out a map of the electrical systems, map the plumbing system (she's only got 2 of the 3 water tanks), I need to figure out how to get up the masts (currently, we're thinking bosun's chair with a ladder - better half is not okay lifting me up on her own...we may just find someone else to lend an extra hand). I need to install spreader lights, check the mast light that doesn't seem to turn on, and run the line for the flags from the main spreader. The mizzen doesn't even have a halyard, and I need to figure out how to run it. We have a Nature's head composting toilet, and I'm debating plumbing a pump to the liquids container to tie in with the head sink outlet. Currently, a roller furling is installed, but I don't know if one of the two extra sails I've found will seat in the roller furler (or even how to setup a roller furler). We have an uber temporary bimini, with good fabric, but a weak structure. I've been trying to figure out how to design a dodger/bimin that doesn't get in the way (this current one will not allow a full rotation on the aft-most winch for the mizzen...I think). I still haven't figured out what I want, but I'm thinking of converting the wire lifeline from the aft assembly to the first stanchion will be the best framework (plus it would be cool). Again, I am going to be posting more specific questions, but I really wanted to get an introduction done.
Oh, and this boat will be rebranded, and I'm planning on documenting her (again...she used to be in the 80s) with the USCG.
So very glad to be here, both on this forum, and in the cockpit, with a rum in one hand.
Welcome!
Did you have a marine surveyor do a pre-purchase survey?
We did an in water one, but not a full one. It's planned that we'll do an entire survey in a year when we haul her out.
My priorities have shifted. The bimini and the solid rails around the back are super appealing, but the truth is that we got this boat to sail to places, drop the hook, and live there. I want to find the sail plan that works for every point of sail, safe, comfortable, and efficient. And I don't want to design a bimini without knowing how the mizzen boom moves.
Which brings me to one of two of the high priority projects. I'm currently preparing to pore over the documentation (and waiting for my binos to arrive) and figuring out the sail plan. Somewhere in our documents is the email of the guy who's taken her out over the past year, and I'll reach out to him. For example, right now I'm beginning to suspect that the missing mizzen halyard is disguising itself as the mizzen topping lift. I have ideas though, and I'll post here about it once I dig deeper (although your experiences are super welcome... Someone posted an amazing thing about sailing ketches).
But right now, refrigeration is the priority. Currently we have one of the mini-fridges that runs on shore power. It kind of works for as long as we are at a marina, but it's not sustainable. Boat refrigeration is tricky! We're leaning towards one of the dometic or Engel types. I can't figure out a good way to use the existing ice box to install a cooling plate with less work. The rough plan now is to remove the existing icebox and build in scaffolding for one of those. We really want a big freezer (and I want ice for everything... Seriously, fuck the Florida heat). Granted, the freezer is about food storage, not ice.
More details this week, since this forum doesn't seem to more quickly.
You folks are awesome!
Welcome!
Jordan,
Nice to have you board. Your enthusiasm is contagious. I am sure you will have many questions along the way and we will all do our best to answer them. Best to live with the boat for a bit before you dive in.
Dale Tanski
Maurska Hull #40
Cutter Ketch
Buffalo NY
Well, I have a bosun's chair now. The better half wants to get a ladder too before she'll winch me up. We'll see what happens with that.
Oh dear lord. I started creating a wiring diagram for the boat. Cleaned out the port side cockpit locker and jumped on in. Spilled a bit of oil, but that's because I haven't cleaned the pump used (I'm assuming) to change said oil. That was annoying, but it was just from the outside of the bag I put it in during the inventory. Stupid me, but that's okay. Now, I found a bunch of wires leading from the battery aft. I took the opportunity to do a deep clean (turns out a shop vac is super handy). But it's Florida, so it was hot. It took about 10 minutes in the locker before I slipped, and bashed my foot against the through-hole. Decent 2" long (but shallow) cut across the foot. Grr. Well, blood and sweat and all that. So I followed the wires to the lazarette. Cleaned that thing out (FYI, way more comfortable than the port locker). Tracked stuff back to the charger. And then the rabbit hole started. One of the super soon things I'm going to do is upgrade to Lithium Ion batteries. But I need a way to charge them from shore power (which I will hopefully have access to for the next 7 months). So I'm about to pull the trigger on this inverter/charger (https://amzn.to/2xtHQ4t). The manual seems to show a pretty straight forward install, and it can charge my current battery, as well as the bank I'll install (I may go way too far there, but we'll see).
Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I didn't complete the wiring diagram yet, since I need to jump into the starboard locker and track all of that down. But honestly, I cannot figure out why there are so many wires!! Let's assume that each item has a switch that goes back to a source, which would mean that for each thing that uses electricity would require 3 cables. I'm pretty sure I have way more than that. This is going to be a hell of a weekend. Anyone else revamped the electrical system?
Jordan,
DC circuits use only 2 wires (black & red or black & yellow, black being positive) and AC circuits use 3 wires (hot (black), neutral (white) and ground (green)). You will find other colors aboard most boats from the factory as typically they ran individual wires instead of duplex and triplex wire and needed the colors so as not to be confusing. From my experience with most old boats a tear out and rewire is the way to go. The key there is a good understanding of what you want and need and a complete layout before you start.
Dale
Maruska
Inverter/Charger
1) 3000 watts is a lot of power, after a microwave or a coffee pot (both less than 1500 watts and you can run them one at a time) what are you going to power?
2) I have been in the business for many years and never heard of GOPower. Do your homework. There are many companies that are involved with solar and RV applications but marine is a whole different animal. Corrosion and the bonding cirsuit on boats is key. Look for ABYC certifications (american boat yacht company).
3) The GOPower unit only has a 100 amp charging system. The battery bank required to supply 3000 watts needs to have that power replaced and 100 amps could be a bit shy for short term recharges (tie up late leave early in the morning situation).
4) Check out Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 or the 2012. Xantrex has a fantastic service network on each coast and make a wonderful product.
Dale
Obersheimer Sailor Supply
Maruska
@Dale Yeah, they were mostly colors I understood, but the number of them is baffling. But that's why I need to do a full wiring Diagram. Those Xantrex's look pretty nice, but I did wind up actually pulling the trigger on that GoPower. I initially got the idea from the one installed on S/V Curiousity (Gone with the Wynns), and when I saw the power and price, I started looking specifically for people with that model, and found overwhelmingly positive (there were some negatives like there always are, but I felt pretty good about it) use-cases.
Oh, and please don't take this as a way of saying your feedback is not appreciated. I just want to explain my thinking, because I'm not quite in the "boat mode". I am constantly at risk of forgetting that it's a boat, and not a drop in house replacement, plus I'm a nerd, so I have a tendency to overcomplicate things just because it's cool. As far as the 100A charging capability, I'm actually okay with that. My goal is to generate most of my power with solar (and possibly a wind generator to go on the mizzen mast if I don't want a radar), so I'm not planning on discharging the batteries and then going back to the dock to charge. That is what you meant right?
Now, the 3000W. That is a lot. My goal with this is that it will run (for now) our electric pressure cooker, a kettle (it's technically an electric percolator, but it makes crap coffee and I have a french press), and our microwave. We are getting better at the habit of using electricity a bit more efficiently (only one working outlet right now makes that kind of necessary), but I have some pretty demanding tech for my field (essentially a server). Also, I will sheepishly admit to wanting to have the option to run the A/C on the hook (at least for a little while). :-[
That being said, I do have 2 12V fans coming, so I think we'll start experimenting a bit with airflow. I know there is a method of generating a breeze, and I do have a windscoop for the forward hatch. Apparently having the companionway hatch open with a dodger creates an interesting vacuum effect. But I don't have a dodger yet, and I'm in a Marina in Florida. It's really hot, and since we are facing about 30°, the way the sun moves across the boat and the fact that it's summer means that no matter what I try, it's too ridiculously hot for me. I wind up retreating to the sealed cabin pumping AC directly on me.
I'm kind of guessing what I'm going to need at anchor, but I'm totally capitalizing on the fact that I do have access to shore power for now. I will admit that I'm kind of beginning to feel a sense of urgency, in getting her kitted out. I keep seeing these reports about the Hurricane activity models for this year, and I want to be able to run if need be (I think worst case scenario would be sailing offshore quite a bit, heaving to, and riding it out...but there are a lot of other options too).
Thanks a bunch for your response!
120 volts divided by 12 volts = 10. So... the inverter ratio is 10 to 1.
P = I x E Power = Amps x Volts, So if you use 3000 watts through your inverter and you divide that by 120 volts that equals 25 amps on the 120 volt AC side. Using that 10 to 1 ratio the draw on the batteries on the DC side would be 250 amps. To properly wire the output of your 3000 watt inverter you will need #0000 copper wire. #000 wire only is rated to carry 239 amps for power service.
You may have a desire to live on the hook, but to do so you will need a suitable electrical system. Feeding a 120 vac electric pressure cooker, coffee pot, microwave, computer and cooling the boat with air conditioning while on the hook through a 3000 watt inverter is a huge undertaking. I also suspect you will want refrigeration.
I would recommend you do a realistic load study to determine your battery bank requirements and replenishment requirements.
Dale
Oh, that makes a bit more sense. I hadn't even thought of the wire gauge between the batteries on full draw. I kind of dismissed it, considering that I haven't built out my battery bank yet. I just wanted to make sure that wasn't a weak point. The math works out.
I emailed to cancel the order, and I'll follow up with a call in the morning. Damn. Am I really going to have to pick every part before I do anything? I had a kill-a-watt, but the microwave got turned on with it connected, and fried it. I guess it'll be a better option to spend the $20 on a new kill-a-watt, and figure out what my needs are.
Pretty sure I owe you a beer at least.
Any resources specifically you'd recommend?
Jordan,
Most items will have nameplates right on the item that indicates what the unit requires for voltage and what it will draw in terms of amperage. Those will be solid numbers that you can use.
Some equipment, typically equipment that has a motor in it, will have what is known as inrush current. This is the amperage draw that the device uses when it first starts. Depending on the item, the amperage during start could be twice the rated amperage once it is running. The good news is that inrush typically lasts only milliseconds but still must be accounted for. If the starting energy isn't made available, the unit will not start or perhaps be damaged. If you look at the specifications on the GOPower unit (and any good unit) it listed the surge capacity. This is its ability to handle the surge and for how long it can do it. Theoretically, the wiring size should be adjusted to handle the inrush surge if the unit starts often.
A comprehensive energy study will take into effect the power draw of each and every item on the vessel and for how long that device will be used. As an example, if your anchor light draws 5 watts and it is on for 10 hours every night, 5 watts x 10 hrs= 50 watt hrs. Let's say at the end of the typical 24 hours, you consume 1030 watt hrs out of your batteries, that is the number you have to replace back into your battery bank. It is also an indicator of the size of your battery bank needs to be. Using P=IxE you can convert that Watt HR number into amps. 1030 = I x 12 VDC or... 85.33 amps. A typical group 31 AGM battery will be rated right around 100 amp hrs., so at first glance a single battery should do the job. That rating of 100 AH means the battery will be for all intensive purposes will be deader than dead after removing that energy. Most good batteries don't like to drawn down to below 50% or so you would need two to have the capacity. You will also need to look at how many times you draw the batteries down, too often and the battery life suffers.
There is much information on this subject online.
Dale
Jordan,
A good guide, and one that might save you a LOT of money, is The Voyager's Handbook. She does an awesome job of walking someone through what is needed, versus desired, versus a waste of money. Good strategies on how to equip a boat according to a given budget. Plus a good read.
https://www.amazon.com/Voyagers-Handbook-Essential-Guide-Cruising/dp/0071437657
If you pm me an email addy, I can send you a decent e-book on boat wiring systems you can follow.
Wayne
Wow! I really can't explain it, but for some reason those last two comments, and the corresponding research I did, has shocked me. Not in a bad way, but I did just look at the ratings of the plug-in devices I have, and what the actual energy needs would be, just for the limited things I mentioned. There are so many more.
I've fallen into a trap. A common one I would think. In order to do what I was thinking, I would need an honestly stupid setup. Like mega yeah level stupid. I honestly hadn't actually gotten to the point of thinking about an inverter. My only thought was that this charger cannot charger li-ion batteries. And then I stupidly went for the biggest capacity I could think of.
I almost feel like being in a marina is a disservice. I'm finding myself trying to translate my current life on shore power to being at anchor. But I think the reality is that I need to simplify. It's not realistic to run an AC from an inverter while also running the things I mentioned. I have a two battery setup right now. AGM, maybe 100ah, and probably less useable considering the 50% discharge rate. I do know I'm upgrading to lithium, but my power use needs to change. Just my media (TV, movies, ebooks, audiobooks) in it's current setup would require 456W. That's just the hard drives! Not even the computer to run it (420W) included. That was a hell of a wake up call, and I haven't even included the work stuff!
I need to revisit how this is going to look. How my life is going to look. Besides miscellaneous articles, most of what I know is from a select group of YouTube channels, and the cruisers compendium from Nigel Calder. The electronics stuff is pretty out of date in that book, and I understood it all. I didn't internalize it. He doesn't even mention lithium ion. I think I dismissed it.
I'm not there yet, but I think I'm getting there. @SVJourney, I will check my library for that book, and I'll hit you up if I don't have it. It sounds familiar, but I'm not sure.
I owe you both some rum.
I'm going to expand on this tomorrow, when I'm a touch more sooner and can post from the laptop. But thank you so much. I'm so low sodium! I'll get salty, but not yet. :)
Going sailing on Thursday! Not in our boat, but still, that's going to be nice. Weather when I checked was calling for 17kt sustained with intermittent guest up to 29kt. Should be awesome. It's a birthday day cruise (yeah, I don't know why that was a gift...I have a boat!), but I'll ask the captain how hard we can push it. Maybe. First time going sailing since I've bought this beautiful ketch.
We spent almost a week picking out a new faucet for the galley. The current setup winds up wasting a lot of water, just due to how close to the edge of the sink is when washing dishes. The new faucet, that I think will be awesome (pictures soon), was delivered today. To our mailbox. 10 miles away. We haven't even picked it up, and she's now wanting to know if there hot water heater works. It seemed a bit premature to me. Enjoy the new awesomeness once it's installed, and go from there! So now I'm looking at how to use this water heater.
I'll post more tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure I need to fill that tank in the starboard cockpit locker, and then run the engine. We shall see what happens next.
I'll make a separate thread with more details, but this worked out really well I think.
(https://i.imgur.com/qBcKIXg.jpg)
*Just* fits. Bet it was interesting getting it installed.
GAH!! Open cans of Friskies out in the galley! :P
Cat on board!
Lol. The wet food is a new thing for our old ass cat, who is deaf and mostly toothless. We used to just grind his food up, mix it with some water, and he was good. But over the past 3 months, he started getting super-picky. And we're really not wanting him to starve, so the better half makes multiple trips to the store every week to try different kinds of cat food. And even then, we have to mix that with water. The other cat has been getting so fat eating Jynx's soft food. So we feed him by hand now.
I'm working on the write up for the faucet install, and I'll post it in the right section. However, since we discussed the cats, here is a little sad video (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN2qQk2abxHRX0tZqKJVmfYzWqlBOBU471tiWHsrsCHP3FGY7xJzIrH0IIHLqeYuA/photo/AF1QipPcka07dotKT9DP9_ELJHkRgnb8zGlrDrKgfzAO?key=d0FtTC10ZHl4ZnA5eHN0RW9SMUVCUGFERFp1YWtR) of him trying to get on the settee. He makes it most of the time, but is just so weak (not sure about the permissions, so let me know if it doesn't work). But since he's deaf, we do get to have a little fun with him (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN2qQk2abxHRX0tZqKJVmfYzWqlBOBU471tiWHsrsCHP3FGY7xJzIrH0IIHLqeYuA/photo/AF1QipMfy2FPjhfPH8V6YtnjTuGf2Oiu5_DtHwbnxoJX?key=d0FtTC10ZHl4ZnA5eHN0RW9SMUVCUGFERFp1YWtR).
It's a constant battle, though. If he's not meowing for food super loudly at 3am, he's doing stuff like this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LQEFzETTCbVx648zCJkQwXLqozeLHMTtVB2RyhRJu9NB46y74HbG6SlpKd25hGAvG_T89wEGAmrVeTeB2FopS_f9r8e2-KZenLwtO_JbJi7sNLuutWk1tr1MEYb4fwpfOXIFIOgXX1DN0x6GnYGSQFSYCr5vB7x9qM013fcG5XHC3EmOPOP6KtrvSsvCcV7EsKovoF3b5bBdRUHH5GkVPa45oUsIdoYr4pQJiwrbG_cuV291zI1fWMCXSk8DfBLbzmhcobBzoUJMCry8EwgAdLMz86lCExeQLPLk4fBuculf4zo7AMjY2bjqqHjh0QltGCDYzZ1VDFNfXT2K_FqnAVEYvg7KRuGurXA_qGKwf_Sqe2IlxwTTAdli0_OPGl2pn1URmJhzC17yzig-iW3LS00_qM-gnkpHrh3hFoqEhqjcjTx962xPSAv62gvfXRGrXOeM5p78xZpCTlxlLXcHHUFm14wY6VgXzWQovZSBT7jrkJ_rIQJ0BXQJeoXthHGVo4rWaZRuwHD9aQ73XEIxduEuEPWaMQ-JKHAlUuON-I3NofvDJk9x5xtltKUFBeOPpBS4phEolE99Iq-PrvY6kLlzHNsuo5A35IhfBOjhhAJdaDgv2Hqn_YIg07sy0nT_8-OXV6Z-CTYg9CGxWfR4lE2ms1uc76JbT0evzyC32efoLnIt8PGn8lsj0JqNe2M2ijbKzSxxwFnLDdNunmkEx5vC78-Ed-7yKlkZClnsiG81ASPaMdFc7DU=w1263-h947-no?authuser=0)
Well, we got the fiddle rails and the grab rail off of the section where the icebox is. Pulled off all the laminate, got all the screws out, and pulled up about half of it. Not sure if it has a lip that goes under those cupboards on the port side behind where the stove would be, but I'm afraid of breaking stuff on accident (no issues breaking it on purpose). Better half just took off to pick up an oscillating tool. She was trying to use the chisel to cut through the wood (and that actually worked in a few other places), but with the how high up that little office fridge sits, plus the lack of clearance above, she did not have good control of the hammer and after a couple of almost tragedies, I insisted we get the right tool for the job.
I poked around before, but didn't find anyone who redesigned the icebox or anything.
(https://i.imgur.com/5GnGpna.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/W3adXvD.jpg)
Hi there!
I am brand new here and also brand new live onboard a Pilgrim365 ketch.
I am looking at doing the same thing with the cool box and would love to know more about your project.
What exactly are you trying to do here? Fit a system like a technautic cool blue inside (Very Expensive) or change the whole thing??
My wife and baby girl are joking me in a couple of weeks so all advices regarding a real fridge/cooling system are very welcom!!
Cheers!
R.D
The one thing I did besides improve the insulation was to install a vacuum insulated lid. It came from a company that did DIY refrigeration systems. It is similar to a thermos design in that the vacuum has a very high insulation rating for the lids thickness and it has a flange frame and excellent gaskets. The lid never sweats, it is excellent.
Dale
Quote from: RomainDaut on May 25, 2020, 04:50:58 AM
What exactly are you trying to do here? Fit a system like a technautic cool blue inside (Very Expensive) or change the whole thing??
At its most basic, I ripped out the icebox in order to have a place to put a 12v refrigeration system. When we bought her, it was just an office fridge sitting where the stove would be. It sits too high, really makes the galley feel smaller, doesn't work that great (takes days to make a tiny tray of ice), and it was just plain annoying. So I got a Whynter (https://amzn.to/3go9FwA) 12v fridge. I'm going to be putting that fridge on a new platform where the icebox was (I'll get some pictures in a bit). At that point, I can get rid of the office fridge, and install a gimballed stovetop and convection oven. Essentially, this is part of the complicated process of getting her prepped to be able to live at anchor and go off-grid cruising, as opposed to sailing from marina to marina, which is kind of how she's rigged now.
Quote from: Dale Tanski on May 25, 2020, 08:16:02 AM
The one thing I did besides improve the insulation was to install a vacuum insulated lid. It came from a company that did DIY refrigeration systems. It is similar to a thermos design in that the vacuum has a very high insulation rating for the lids thickness and it has a flange frame and excellent gaskets. The lid never sweats, it is excellent.
Dale
I'll say this, as I was researching all of these possibilities, I went down quite the rabbit hole. The Vacuum Insulation Panel technology damn near made me go the route of a cooling plate and some new insulation in the existing icebox. There is so much space. That's been the trickiest part, actually. How to do this and not waste any storage space. Who knows what I'll do next. One thing that I'm very quickly learning is that if I try to assume what our cruising life will look like right now, I'll be wrong.
For a guy who touts living on the hook and off of the grid, you are a taking a strange approach. First off, the existing ice box (called that for a reason) is huge by design to store a large quantity of ice. Mass storage of ice, know as thermal storage, can provide temperatures suitable for refrigeration without outside mechanical refrigeration for days depending how often you disturb the box. The drain in the bottom is not there for spilled wine.
The top loaded box is another design specifically to enhance the systems ability to hold the cold when you open the lid. Cold air acts like water when you open a conventional refrigerator door flowing to the floor when the door is opened. A top access prevents this from happening. Your "new" unit will dump every time it is reopened and will require valuable power to replace the cold.
You mentioned ice. Ice is one of the most expensive commodities you will manufacture aboard. The thermal mass concept is based on the phase change of the liquid water into solid ice. To make this happen, one has to remove a huge amount of thermal energy to freeze the water. I often comment when receiving a soft drink filled to the rim with ice at a fast food place. They do this of course as they are focused on minimizing the cost of the syrup. If they only knew the cost required to manufacture the ice they would be better off minimizing the ice and replacing it with liquids as the drink would cost them less.
You now have a new highest energy draw to contend with known as 12 volt refrigeration. Perhaps you should consider replacing your anchor rode with a shore power cord.
Dale
Quote from: Dale Tanski on May 25, 2020, 03:14:27 PM
For a guy who touts living on the hook and off of the grid, you are a taking a strange approach.
It's an approach by a guy who doesn't have much experience, and am learning as I go. Hence why I'm documenting my thought process and am open to feedback. I am aware of the power of ice boxes, and we did use it as one for a couple of weeks. A lot of food wasted as we learned, and even once we kind of got the hang of it, we just couldn't quite figure out a way to make the shift in lifestyle pleasant. It could be that it's our own weak spot, or whatever, or it could be the fact that she has been a marina boat for the last 3 years (everything that we cook with is stuff that we've gotten since we've been on her). Maybe I'm not doing things in the best way, but each step is directly linked back to disconnecting the shore power.
And I don't know if I messed up the links or whatever, but the fridge I have
is top opening, so I'm not sure what that paragraph was about.
As far as ice goes (specifically the desire to make some), I imagine that is going to shift over time as well. I can confirm that this fridge freezer will freeze a 32oz cup of water into a block within less than 12 hours. Which is neat, but once I wire up the electrical, that's when I'll start playing with the power consumption bit. Better than current state anyway.
Okay. I have to admit that I took Dale's comment poorly.
I honestly spent some time coming up with "sick burns" against potential comments he'd make. But what I realized is that it wasn't personal (hopefully...if it was, shoot me a PM ;D).
My google-fu fails me when it comes to memes and the like, but I'm pretty sure there is a chart of knowledge or something that breaks down the parts. What you know you know, what you know you don't know, etc. I'm spending a lot of time in the things I don't know I don't know section. And that bugs me a bit.
But here I am (I'm trying to get the better half to join). I really don't know. I couldn't get the engine started, nobody at the marina could help, so I paid for it. And I honestly feel okay about that. This guy seems familiar with the engine, and his troubleshooting was exactly what I did, and then he went further. Long story short, currently our injector pump is getting rebuilt.
So as far as the engine goes, I've outsourced it for now. Once it starts, I'm going to take over learning about it. As I'm sure anyone who has been cruising for a while would expect (I think), my priorities keep changing. I know I was surprised. There is a saying I heard once.
- Keep the rig up.
- Keep the keel & rudder on.
- Keep the water on the outside..
- Everything else is negotiable.
I try to keep that in mind, but I really suck at it. So much more I want to do. But that's what I am doing. The rig, the rudder, the keel, and go from there. But I couldn't get the engine to work. Currently, we're stuck. I could get a big ass paddle (what's the word for that? a skegging paddle?), but this isn't just me. We intend to cruise. To use the wind to push us from place to place, and leave this madness behind. So the motor is getting to the point where she can start, and I'll take over from there.
So we're in sailing mode. We moved to the headsail. A roller furler is installed, but it doesn't spin. It's not the drum at the bottom. It'll twist as much as it can without the top foil/extrusion moving. And now, with my aforementioned desire to overcomplicate things, definitely think the headstay hasn't been replaced in 43 years. But I'm going up the mast soon, and I'll poke around. I think I have the original, and I hope it'll work. I've got 2 masts, a forestay, and only a single sail to use. Any good resources about roller furlers?
Your headsail furler issue could be several things.
1) What is the make of your furler? If it is a CDI and you hoisted your headsail using the boats jib halyard, that is the problem. A CDI furler uses its own internal halyard for hoisting that rides internally in its foil section. If you use the normal jib halyard on the boat, it just wraps around the headstay at the top getting tighter and tighter until it stops the rotation.
2) If it is any other make furler, it still could be the jib halyard. Look up and see if the jib halyard is getting caught on the upper bearing assembly. If it is, it wraps around just like with the CDI and stops the upper portion from rotating when it gets tight. To fix this situation you can install a halyard pull back bracket. Schaefer makes a nice simple one. It is designed to hold the jib halyard against the mast to provide clearance between the halyard and the upper bearing assembly allowing it to rotate freely.
3) Although rare, it could be a broken strand of your headstay that is getting caught on the inside of your foil extrusion keeping it from rotating. If this is the case the headstay with furler will have to be taken down and the headstay wire replaced. This is often easier said than done as the sections of furler will have to be taken apart as the connectors for the foil are the bearings that ride around the headstay wire. These connectors will not slide over the lower swedged wire fitting and must be removed to do so. Depending on make, disassembly can often be all but impossible. Many of the Sheafer furlers used pop rivets to fasten the connectors to the foils and although you can drill out the heads of the rivets, you can not remove the rivet body because it will not push in due to the headstay being in the way. Many other manufactures used set screws. These are often "frozen" into the aluminum foil sections and are all but impossible to remove or drill out. We find Harken furlers to be the most serviceable, with many of the original Mark 1's still going strong at over 30 years old, however, replacement parts are no longer available for them.
Whatever you do, do not exert extreme rotational force on the furler assembly in an attempt to free it up. We had a customer that attempted to winch on the furler line and when that didn't work attached it to his electric windlass for more power. The windlass did indeed spin the furler assembly. The final result was that he twisted the headstay clean off at the upper swedged eye and the severed headstay and furler landed on his neighbors boat. Good thing it was a keel step mast or he could have lost the rig over the side as well. The damages were close to $5k.
Dale Tansk
Obersheimers
Maruska
Hull #40
Quote from: Jordan on May 05, 2020, 03:09:06 PM
I keep seeing these reports about the Hurricane activity models for this year, and I want to be able to run if need be (I think worst case scenario would be sailing offshore quite a bit, heaving to, and riding it out...but there are a lot of other options too).
Taking a boat to sea in a hurricane is a really bad idea. Ships are better off at sea but most boats aren't built for those conditions. Far better to haul out, go into the mangroves or up a river, that way if you damage the boat you don't have to die.
I'd hopefully do it early. That being said, this marina is a hurricane hole I've learned. So I think we're good for now.
"Taking a boat to sea in a hurricane is a really bad idea".
+1
Like a new definition of the word "bad".
I listened to the Sinking of the El Faro recently. That was crazy. Okay, I solemnly swear I won't take my boat into the sea during a hurricane on purpose.
Okay. Engine works! She purrs. It's amazing what a few grand to an old guy can accomplish. Raw water pump seems to be hosed. It might be the camshaft screw it something that got missed. This was my fault. I got cocky, and told the guys that "of course I know how to tension the belt". Which meant they left before I really started her up. I will resolve this issue though. And learn how to rebuild it if needed.
I feel really happy that I've never had my bilge pump go off unintentionally until now. It freaked me out.
But I truly hope to go out on Saturday.
I did identify another job to do. This one I think I can do on my own. I need to address the anti stall sensor. At idle, the engine stalls. Allegedly, I just need to adjust it. That being said, for now, I like the ability to kill the engine from the wheel. I'm torn.
Alright. I've spent some time over the past couple of days prepping for Isaias. We're doing fine, although I am awake this early to make sure the tide won't mess with me. Without the function over form Bimini, so many people here have complimented her. I feel so very good about this boat.
Okay, I left a lot of threads I started just sitting out there. I was very lost when I started this process, and wound up getting pulled in a bunch of different directions. I couldn't find information that was clear, complete, and concise. I'm beginning to think that is due to the way boat jobs (especially when it comes to a new-to-us boat) go. So I'm going to take a minute to link to the disparate threads, and post a quick update here. I'll go into each of these threads, and get the information updated. I'm also going to consolidate the threads by stage and job.
Plumbing
Galley Faucet (https://pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=2095.msg10825#msg10825)
This one actually got completed. The only hiccup I experienced was that one of the pressure nuts on the water manifold for the pressure water system broke. I could not for the life of me find the right kind of connector. I thought I had PEX line, but that's not it. A friend on my dock is a plumber, and used some pipe dope to get the broken nut working. I'd like to get it solved, but it seems to be okay now, and we make sure we don't leave the water pump on when we leave the boat.
Rigging
Mizzen Topping Lift (https://pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=2111.msg10905#msg10905)
This was mostly because I was pretty sure something was missing, since I had to move the mizzen halyard from the end of the boom to the sail to raise it. It is just missing. I was going to essentially leave it like that, but I recently embarked on a full re-rig, and I'm just duplicating the fixed wire to the 3/8" line to a turning block on the mizzen. Nothing magical, nothing special, but it's going to be added.
Roller furler is jammed! (https://pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=2122.msg10984#msg10984)
This was a hell of a learning experience. Long story short with this one is that I didn't know what I had, or how it was supposed to work. Did a bunch of research, found the model, and then I found a company that rebuilds them. They got it down, pulled it off, and took it back to the shop. All new bearings, seals, and grease. They needed to actually cut a section off in order to get the bottom drum pulled apart, and rewelded. I'll post pictures over in that thread, because I pretty much got that part resolved. The only outstanding thing is that when they mounted it, the bottom drum was not lined up properly with the groove in the stay. He will go ahead and fix it. It looks like it's just about 8 allen bolts on the inside of the drum, to be removed, rotated, and rescrewed it. This should be good to go for another decade or two.
Time for a new headsail!! (https://pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=2131.msg11080#msg11080)
This was posted in response to the headstay actually getting put back on and freely spinning (which from what I understand is kind of important in a roller furler). I reached out to Fred to see if I could snag the sails off of the boat he was trying to sell, but it looks like he's going back in the water, and needs them. Dale has a 150% that might work, and that would be awesome. I had a few questions that I was going to break down in this thread regarding sail plans (you know, like a 150% working jib vs a 120/130% high cut yankee), but I think that is a bit premature, and I just need to get some canvas up. I'm collecting data on different sail plans, and then will log my actual experience. Hopefully Dale has had a bit of a break, and I'll hear more about that head sail.
Electrical
Most of the conversation about this has been mentioned in this particular thread. It's been a learning experience. It's still ongoing, but I have everything but the batteries now. I went with a Victron inverter/charger along with a Victron battery monitor. I'm wiring up all the new stuff with 12 AWG tinned copper. I did confirm that the Raritan I have is not functional at all. I cracked that thing open, and discovered that our single working 110V outlet is pretty much just directly attached to the shore power cord (they both go to the same terminal, so it doesn't do anything with the existing one). I've also expanded out my 12v system. I've got two dual USB chargers installed on each side of the v-berth, and a 12v battery charger for AAA, AA, D, C. This is around the nav station and the locker just forward. We're also thinking of doing a drawer in that locker, but we'll see. I'll create a separate thread for all the electrical stuff.
Engine
Post fuel filter replacement priming (https://pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=2115.msg10920#msg10920)
So this has been ongoing. I tried just changing the fuel filters, and she never started again. Found someone to help troubleshoot. Brand new injectors and a rebuilt injector pump. The rebuild cost about $1400, and the labor for the mechanic (so far) has cost about $1600. But I've learned a lot, and she starts up with no problem. But then something else happened, which leads me to the next thread.
Water Pump (https://pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=2126.msg11030#msg11030)
The motor lives!! Alas, the water pump took a crap. Looks like a seal broke. I'm pretty sure that means that some salt water got in with the oil. So we've emptied out as much as we could without a raw water pump (I'm pretty sure the vaccuum is important to pump from where the dipstick is, and I can't get it all without the pump installed), and have it on our list to regularly change the oil every week or two until I feel comfortable most of it is out. This process was a mess. I ordered a new one, had issues with the post office, got no response from that particular government agency. No refund, no phone call, no contact, no nothing. Currently I'm out $600 bucks, and had to buy another one. That one only got delayed about a week and a half. I think I've fallen into that trap of being an American, and thinking that no matter how fucked things get, there will still be some fundamental aspects of this country, but that is obviously not the case. So this had nothing to do with anything as far as the boat, and beyond the complete lack of help initially from the company, it was the government. I'll be filing police reports, etc. Annoying as hell. But I currently have an $1100 water pump. Let's hope it works. Should be getting installed and calibrated today (Westerbeke Service Bulletin 10).
#boatlife
Oh I forgot!! We've got the old name scraped off, and will be cleaning up the transom during the week, and get her new name installed. Then I file the USCG paperwork, do a rechristening, and then I can start putting her name in my signature and threads.
"For thousands of years, we have gone to sea. We have crafted vessels to carry us and we have called them by name. These ships will nurture and care for us through perilous seas, and so we affectionately call them "she." To them we toast, and ask to celebrate (the name of your boat)."
Toast: "TO THE SAILORS OF OLD. TO (the name of your boat)."
"The moods of the sea are many, from tranquil to violent. We ask that this ship be given the strength to carry on. The keel is strong and she keeps out the pressures of the sea."
Toast: "TO THE SEA...TO THE SAILORS OF OLD...TO THE SEA!"
"Today we come to name this lady (name of your boat), and send her to sea to be cared for, and to care for the (name of your family) family. We ask the sailors of old and the mood of God that is the sea to accept (your boat's name) as her name, to help her through her passages, and allow her to return with her crew safely. "
Final Toast: "TO THE SEA...TO THE SAILORS BEFORE US...TO (the name of your boat)."
Ahh yes... the romance of the sea, it's traditions, lore, etiquette.
"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."
― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows
Just saw this in one of the latest Delos videos. I've only read a little bit on how to properly deploy a spinnaker, and I'm not sure when to do this part. :D
(https://j.gifs.com/BNZ8qY.gif)
You'd need a symmetrical spinnaker setup first -- deploy a stern anchor upwind, tie the two spinnaker clews together and tie a recovery line to one side. Hoist the spinnaker to the headstay and have someone sit on the lines connecting the clews. The sail will fill and take them with it, strong suggestion to avoid the forestay and anything in the way as you get lifted up! The spinnaker rider can pull the clews together to lower themselves and you can use the recovery line if the sail tries to escape. It's a lot of fun but definitely can be precarious if you're not paying attention.
Headsail worked great Dale!
Inaugural sail: done!
The projects don't end, but this milestone is big!
Thanks a bunch to everyone here. You're a wealth of knowledge.
(https://i.imgur.com/CO6UQaa.jpg)
Congrats! Looks like you were havin' fun.
Quote from: SVJourney on August 29, 2020, 09:03:01 PM
Congrats! Looks like you were havin' fun.
I was sailing. For the first time. On my boat. Fun doesn't even
begin to describe it. When we got back, I recovered from the travesty that was trying to dock with a misadjusted anti-stall, the heat of my extremely well protected marina, and the sunburn, I was damn near in tears. It's like when I asked myself, there was no hesitation that I knew I could do this. But when it actually happened, the extremely deep sense of relief and pride that I felt makes me think I didn't really believe myself. A couple hours after we got back, my freaking legs gave out, and I just had to sit down in the cockpit in awe. A very magical day.
So much sacrifice, so much change, so much anger, so many tears. So worth it.
LOL, and another sailor was born. :)
I'm trilled that the luff tape on that sail fit your furler!
That would have been a real bummer if it didn't.
Glad to hear your a real sailboat.
Enjoy...
Dale
Jordan,
Congratulations! It only gets better.
40nm sail in the books, with me completely in charge the entire time, and only two sets of additional hands, neither of which are skilled sailors, but have definitely motored between marinas for the last year or two. Enough to make MXT feel okay about it, which is awesome.
I think I need to discuss our first sail in more detail, since this sail is based a lot on comparisons.
First time we went out sailing, the goal was to figure out if the boat sailed. Main sail only was the initial plan, but then Dale came through with a 150% headsail, that actually fit the luff tape. We couldn't run it correctly as laid out earlier. But still we went out. A few different points of sail, a bit of experience with the gulfstream. I was sailing near what I thought was an anchored container ship. Moving close, tacking away, and moving back in. And then we decided to move on. The wind shifted, our sails filled, and we set out. A minute or two later, I looked at the container ship, and asked the guy with us if that ship was at anchor. I could have sworn she was steaming along, and going faster than us.The container ship was at anchor, my sails were full, and I was going backwards. I seriously thought I was losing a race to an anchored ship!! I like to call this the moon-walking dolphin. Essentially though, it's just a lack of understanding how crazy that gulfstream gets. We head back in, tried to dock, killed the engine, and our skilled sailor just wanted to manhandle us in. I already did that, though. I feel a bit bad about this, since I know he's just trying to help out new sailors. But when he stalled the engine, and started reaching for a pylon, I said "Oh, so we're not going to try to get into the slip with the motor. Cool. Thanks for nothing." I was stressed a bit, to be honest.
Check out this track:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3euyEXgau752pf8_wc6v6tkHykn_90yNGj_izmX7TnBbJ5vEFIYgkkuryZG-tKPdP280aR_aEGBszok2Dl6A5O1bWNSo7HcGvstcNX2PEte1XP0WpsX1FaGHLHFqAv0khwCHZorehNPLuTekEpfolD_5w=w451-h947-no?authuser=0)
Second sail was different. This time, I knew what I wanted to do. I spent some time looking over waves, wind, gusts, clouds, tides. I even checked live webcams around Port Everglades and marine traffic maps to get a sense of how busy the inlet would be on a holiday weekend. I thought about our departure time, return time, position of our slip, etc. There were a lot of moving parts! But there were some aspects of our trip that I think were directly related to the planning. First, from our Marina, we have 3 drawbridges to get through before we can get to the ocean. I know, but it's temporary. Anyway, the way it works out is that whatever direction I'm heading (into the marina from the ocean, or out to the ocean from the marina), the first and third bridge open at the top and bottom of the hour, and the middle bridge is 15 minutes afterwards at 30 minute intervals. Which means that ideally, I can make it through all 3 bridges in 30 minutes. First time we went out, the engine made odd noises at the second bridge and we turned back. The next time, we followed another sailboat, making the wrong assumption they knew the schedule, and missed the second one on the way out. A bit of motoring practice, and we did things right on the way back in.
This time, I was the one driving the boat out of the slip, I was the one driving up the ICW, I was the one routing us, I was the one on the radio, I was the one responsible for the safety of my guests/crew, I was the one in charge of docking with the engine for the first time, utilizing prop walk to get into my slip. This time, I was truly captain.
I did good, if I do so say so myself. We left at noon, 4 people on board, tides helping all the way, and making sure the small storms forecast were set to miss us mostly. We hit all 3 bridges within 30 minutes. We got to the inlet, and headed East, towards the open ocean. Apparently, if I had the same boat as my new slip neighbor, if I gunned it, I'd hit the Bahamas in about an hour and a half. But that wasn't where I routed us this day (plus I'm all about wind, not fossil fuels). I wanted to go South. I had to raise sails and go on a port tack. Theoretically, I could do it. Last sail track looked like a kindergartner with a pen and a sneezing fit planned my route (see above). That gulfstream is a lot closer than I thought. But you know what? I did it. We unfurled the jib (about 6 times, because the drum got jammed with the too-big line), raised the main, and tried to trim the sails to go South ish without fighting the current. And she did it. We didn't even tack until we had to come back, and we went significantly further than I thought. It was beautiful. Hitting 7kn on a beam/broad reach with a 150% headsail and a possibly too large main. No mizzen. We decided to tack, head out into the gulfstream, and make our way North. The wind was forecast to drop quite a bit later in the day (hence why I wanted the Gulfstream to help on the way back). Sails started to luff, and after some behavior that seemed bad for the sails, decided to go ahead and put a reef in the main. So I went to the first reef, getting the reef point on the starboard hook in the boom. Went to reraise, and I realized that the reefing points on the luff of the sail had no lines ran through. Neither did the second reef. The guy I was with said that there were lines run at the second reef, and even though I didn't see them, I decided to give it a shot. I've missed stuff on the other side of the sail a few times now. When we got it down, I'm pretty sure he was trying to use the tell tales to tie the sail to the boom. Obviously they didn't fit, and obviously he had ideas as to why which weren't related to sailing experience. So we dropped the main, and turned on the motor. We head towards the back end of a squall. And promptly got hit by another. Now, I knew this one would be here, but never in my wildest imagination would I have thought we'd have made it this far South. But a bit of water was an expected part of this trip, which I made clear at the much-more-informal-than-I'd-like briefing. Not much, but a bit. This 365 is heavy enough that even though I'd never been in weather like this, I had absolutely zero doubt in my mind that the boat could handle it. Both of the other folks onboard seemed to melt as soon as the rain started. Huddled together in the corner of the cockpit, and not even registering my words. With this newly purring Westerbeke 40, I had no doubt we'd get back. Our charts were Navionics on our smartphones. But holy shit I'm bad at reading waves. That squall built up quite the waves. Not close together, but big enough to mess with me. I tried to point us at a good bearing (with no sails up, and using iron wind, it seems like it should just be a matter of pointing, but apparently not), but often wound up taking these swells straight on the beam. All kinds of stuff went flying across the cabin. Nothing broke though, so that was cool. I think this was a lack-of-experience thing, and I also think that this is damn near the closest thing I'd experience out there once I know what I'm doing. And not even the cats died!! We almost lost the other fridge (that I still hold we shouldn't have), but lashed it down.
And then it was just the smell of diesel and chugging along back towards the inlet. The storm let up, but took all the wind with it. I could have (and should have) sailed, but to my embarrassment, I motored. I'll admit, I was scared. The main fell out of the lazy jacks, and messed up my ability to see. I requested that someone take the helm so that I could fix it, but MXT just jumped up there and started manhandling this sail. I'll admit, that freaked me the fuck out. We're not going out to the ocean again without a way to clip in. I didn't think that would be an issue honestly. I feel confident in my ability to go up on deck and mess with the mast mounted winches. What I wasn't prepared for is everyone thinking driving was the scariest thing, and being stuck behind the helm while MXT reflaked the main. I am in love with the fact that I chose for us to float on the ocean, and I know I'm small in the face of it. I've never felt so small as when she was up there, less than 8 feet away from me, with me powerless to give her a hand. But we did it. We had to head out a bit more than I expected, but the swell kind of dictated that route.
No issues, and we got back to the ICW. It took longer than I thought, and it was dark now. Talk about trial by fire. The vast majority of boats on the ICW on the Sunday of a 3-day weekend (even after sunset) didn't have lights. And then, as I approached the first bridge back in, some famous ICW cruise ship was there. The wind didn't mess with me, but the current was pushing me towards the bridge. After announcing myself on the VHF (a new one), they knew I had the right of way. I believe the bridge tender's exact words were "Oh shit, a sailing vessel". I chatted with the big ass stinkpot, and was able to pull off a really nice hover as she went through the bridge. It felt good making it look easy.
We hit the next bridges as expected, even though I went a bit fast for the middle bridge, and wound up doing a loop and prop walk test uncomfortably close to a wreck, but everything worked out. Got back into the marina, and found my dock. Holy shit it was tight. Drove in perfectly, used prop walk to back into my slip, and pulled it off almost perfectly (I need to work on boat hook skills).
Tomorrow, I intend to write up a lessons learned post. For now though, I sailed. Again. And I'm so ridiculously happy.
Here is that track:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dQaYJ1MUqCFL2V0qNm-wzlw2vtNhoDXJ50GueA9dXWGAOQJ_ZJPJDOHT91DBFqfylXacz68eap6EN2CrpHpJpIMfKwdMuwJOkYlHOrBXAXfF2fG9Md3cB35mZQjvOWRZc_Kubd5mgp4DMjn7CKLDF7gA=w451-h947-no?authuser=0)
Jordan,
Congrats on a great cruise! I think it's great fun to read about your adventures as you get more time using your boat. It only gets better. Each and every trip you gain experieince and confidence.
The admiral and I took off for labor day weekend-had great wind over to Gloucester, MA. Quiet night anchored out in the harbor while schooners sailed in and out carrying tourists.
The next day, we sailed outside and anchored in Folly Cove and dove for flounder and lobster. I speared a couple of fish for lunch and caught a lobster for later. Summer is drawing to a close and I haul out on Sept. 30-lots of projects to keep me busy during the winter.
Did you have a wee bit of Folly Cove Rum while in Folly Cove? Excellent, to my taste, rum made in Gloucester.
Jim,
I did not know and I live almost next door! Most summers I head north, but based on the last trip I have decided Glouster has much to offer-schooner races, a dependable breeze and great diving all in a working man's harbor. Plentiful anchoring and great used bookstores too. Now a rum distillery? Sailing heaven.
We did a rum distillery crawl headed to Maine the year before you bought Tropicbird. R&W distillery in Gloucester was our favorite. We had great fried seafood at a shack there as well. Gloucester had not lost its charm, I hope it never does.
Rural coastal New England is a favorite area for us, so different from the heat and humidity of the Texas coastal areas. Actually more relaxed it seems.
You have to try Privateer Rum in Ipswich.
I don't know if we are going to head that way any time soon, but I did go ahead and add that to my map. I lost internet at the Marina, and I'm too cheap to bother tethering my phone, so I didn't get a chance to post yesterday. But I did do a bit of writing.
Lessons learned.
Now, as I'm assuming will continue to happen on each sail, I generate a list of things to do for next time. Hopefully this will ease up as I go out more often, but it's a fun learning experience figuring out things that will make sailing more fun, more comfortable, and safer.
1. Roller furler line
I mentioned before how the line that is installed on there is too big, and gets caught in the drum. Apparently we got lucky the first time we went out, because while I did have to go on deck to furl and unfurl the jib, it went smoothly. Not so on this last sail. I could barely get the jib all the way out, and it involved a lot of back and forth between the sheets and the furler line. This is something I knew, but I didn't actually experience real issues with it the first time, just inconvenience. I think the line should be 5/16", and my current line is 56'. It's a 3/8", and when I size that correctly, I'll hopefully resolve the issues with chafing. Since this is the only line of this size on the boat, I don't necessarily want to buy in bulk, even though I'm really leaning that way with other lines. I bought an 80' length of 3/8 to replace whatever halyard or sheet broke first, and thought I was hot shit, considering it was 30% off. Only paid about $130. Got home, and found a freaking 300' spool for $76. (https://www.e-rigging.com/three-eighths-inch-x-300-foot-Double-Braid-Nylon-Rope) Gonna hold off on the 3/8, but I might just buy a 600' spool and replace everything, but we'll see. For now, I am ordering this 100' length of 5/16 line for < $40 (https://amzn.to/3irfEkQ)
2. Fenders
I've currently got 3 fenders on the boat. I added one when I added a short spring line, but otherwise I've just left them where they were. Well, this caused a problem when trying to move the cars back on the jib track. When moving them further back, I ran into the line for the fender. So I just need to actually untie and retie them, so I know how they need to be positioned. Mostly, I didn't want another variable introduced this first time docking (and it turned out to be in the dark no less!). UPDATE: I actually did this yesterday, and identified a better way of storing them so that they are positioned correctly, but aren't in the way of the track.
3. Pendant on headsail.
Now I'm kind of debating this one. Doing a bit of research and talking to cruisers, it seems that having a crimper and the crimp ends for stainless wire is extremely useful. If I do get one, I can just cut off the existing pendant at the top of the sail, and mount in at the foot. That will get me the clearance I need. However, one of the things that has been on my list of skills to develop has been rope splicing. I've been looking around for some beginner kit with fids and stuff, just so that I have an idea as to how they are supposed to work, but didn't seem to find anything reasonable. However, as I went shopping about for marlinspikes, I found one with a nice set of fids that came with it (https://amzn.to/35mXltA), which is pretty cool. So I can try making a Dyneema pendant (I do know I'd have to be very careful about chafing) and use that, but we'll see.
4. Cushions
The couple who came with us brought some throwable cushion floats and a stadium chair. That made things significantly more comfortable. I'm not certain about the stadium chair itself just yet, but those cushions are handy (plus they seem like they would stow significantly better). Going to pick up 2 of these (https://amzn.to/2RgCWOp), and we'll see how that goes. We stacked a bunch up on the lazarette so that whoever was driving could sit and still see.
5. Locker Latches
We've got the standard locker doors with the hole for your finger and the spring loaded latch inside. I've never been a fan of them, as I've damn near broke my finger when something moves at just the wrong time. But those push button pull out latches are like $20/piece. Instead, I found some plastic ones for significantly cheaper (https://amzn.to/3bJAk53) (like 10 of them for $40). Since I now know I'll be using primarily polyester resins, I'm going to try to get my hands on some sawdust, and use that as filler in epoxy to fill the holes in the locker doors. We'll paint them (or something), and drill a new hole closer to the edge for these latches. When we were rolling a bit, a few of our doors just gave up and were swinging open. A fire extinguisher almost squashed the cat!! So yeah, that's a priority.
6. Belt
During the test start of the motor, I noticed a bit of squealing from the belt. So I killed the engine, and retensioned it. It tightened up, but that belt isn't in great shape. So we're going to get a new one and a replacement. I think one of the other pulleys may have an issue with it's bearings, but I want the belt running smoothly before I continue troubleshooting. It's kind of hard finding that belt though. The model number on it is 2614b532, and a search doesn't seem to show anything. MXT emailed Westerbeke to see if they knew. I'm hoping I don't need to, but I can bust out the micrometer and use this pulley calculator (http://www.gizmology.net/pulleysbelts.htm) I found posted on this forum.
7. Harness!
It's not her favorite, but MXT doesn't seem to feel unsafe when we are moving a bit more than she is comfortable with. I wouldn't have thought we'd have gotten to this point this soon, but we did. Which means lots of motion, and lots of ability to fall off deck. Watching MXT flake the main was not comforting, and I know she's also uncomfortable when I go up to mess with the sails. So we'll make sure we get one of those. There is going to be some research here.
8. Tablet and mount
We are using Navionics as our Chart Plotter, and I tried to use an old phone mount for my bike on the pedestal, but the actual waterproof case didn't work out. Needing to pull out the phone and look at it while driving was not ideal. I'm going to get a 10" tablet to mount up there, and set it up to be always on.
3/8 should be right on the furler. When you release it do you keep some tension on it? That helps it coil smoothly on the drum. You will be in a world of hurt trying to drag that big 150 down in a squall if the 5/16 twine breaks.
Your sheets and halyards should be 1/2". Remember it might be your butt hanging from one. Do not buy cheap line although buying a spool of good 1/2" would be awesome. You need double braid that is designed to be spliced and the line you find at Home Depot is not it. Also yacht braid is lower stretch than normal generic rope. Important for halyard tension.
All according to nobody but me of course, but I fully expect Dale to chime in here with a look of horror at the thought of climbing 3/8 line.
Belt,
Just take the belt off and take it to the local Napa or whatever autoparts you use. Note before you take it off how much adjustment you have left so you know whether to round up or down on size. There is nothing special about it. All auto parts stores have a tool to show what size you have. Takes seconds to measure it up and cross match the number. Get a Gates "Green Stripe" heavy duty or equivalent belt so it lasts longer. Don't tighten it too awful much or it can damage the fresh water pump bearings.
Quote from: SVJourney on September 09, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
3/8 should be right on the furler. When you release it do you keep some tension on it? That helps it coil smoothly on the drum. You will be in a world of hurt trying to drag that big 150 down in a squall if the 5/16 twine breaks.
Your sheets and halyards should be 1/2". Remember it might be your butt hanging from one. Do not buy cheap line although buying a spool of good 1/2" would be awesome. You need double braid that is designed to be spliced and the line you find at Home Depot is not it. Also yacht braid is lower stretch than normal generic rope. Important for halyard tension.
All according to nobody but me of course, but I fully expect Dale to chime in here with a look of horror at the thought of climbing 3/8 line.
It is totally way too big. And it's not that it's spooling funny or getting bound up. The amount of physical material inside the drum jams it about 4 turns before it's unfurled entirely (and I didn't even add extra loops to furl it tight initially), it just gets full . And I used a micrometer to check the existing halyards and sheets, and they were all 3/8. I can't really see 1/2" fitting in the self tailing winches for either the boom vang (is that right? like a traveler that doesn't travel and connects to a static point from the midpoint of the boom?) or the sheets for the headsail. I'll see if I can't get a picture of the way the furler looks when the sail is out to show you what I mean.
And one of the riggers weighed quite a bit more than I do, and they used all of the existing halyards that Dale scared me about :D.
That spool of rope (or that company) seems like solid quality rope to me. E-rigging or whatever the site was. Did you see something I didn't, or just talking about being careful? I hate Florida Home Depots, so trust that I won't get anything for the actual functioning of the sailboat as a sailboat from there.
Oh crap, I forgot to say, we did grab a 1x1 piece of pine to do a test. We added it to the cockpit table, which allowed it to full open, and even though the leg of the cockpit table was a bit short, I used a spare length of PVC to get it at the right height. I'll tell you what, it makes a world of difference! We're going to redesign the table to flip out, but for now, this is nice. We had our snacks there during our sail, and I could reach over to grab something.
Quote from: SVJourney on September 09, 2020, 03:20:53 PM
Belt,
Just take the belt off and take it to the local Napa or whatever autoparts you use. Note before you take it off how much adjustment you have left so you know whether to round up or down on size. There is nothing special about it. All auto parts stores have a tool to show what size you have. Takes seconds to measure it up and cross match the number. Get a Gates "Green Stripe" heavy duty or equivalent belt so it lasts longer. Don't tighten it too awful much or it can damage the fresh water pump bearings.
I'm guessing that happens in autopart stores outside of Florida. MXT had the belt, and took it to no less than 4 different places (including advanced auto, O'Reillys, Napa, and West Marine). I'll have to try to find a place that does it or something. Maybe call ahead, because these folks are freaking useless. You should have seen the oil filters they told MXT were compatible with our engine. Jeez.
Okay, photo of the drum and some video at the album I posted earlier. However, I think you may be right about the halyard size. I may have some seriously underpowered lines in board. Even worse, I would have gotten replacement underpowered lines. That's why I'm posting here as I think things through. I know I'm getting impatient, so need to check myself.
Would 5/16" for the furler line be kinda skinny and hurt when furling the sail?
Quote from: P69 on September 09, 2020, 10:32:55 PM
Would 5/16" for the furler line be kinda skinny and hurt when furling the sail?
I don't think so. At least not for me. IIRC, 10mm and 1/4" were too small, but 12mm and 5/16" felt okay to me. The Jenneau 349 next to me runs 5/16 as well.
Regarding furling line-I think mine is 5/16 on my headsail furler. Thicker would be more comfortable but I don't think there would be enough room on my drum and I am only furling a 135.
Regarding alternator belts-yes on the green stripe-they last a long, long time. I changed over to serpentine arrangement when I rebuilt the W40 because I got a lot of belt squealing, but that may have been due to the 125Amp alternator overloading the belt. almost no belt dust and no slipping now.
Wifi at the marina is down, but I did pull out the sail for some photos. I added them to that album, but here it is inline.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f9YPd4eYVCjdbB2tEKCS6O0kTfXbT_k3l8oojslNGE5zbBMmtC5ggB70JKYxvCzXYt9olFsL5SlMWltS5nfQKliyohC0K55fGwNZTNFJNUayvrFGQDrNAzSLX_fYbL532WaCaW-s1sXcQYO1PpdQlEww=w1263-h947-no?authuser=0)
At this point, even the winch on the sheets doesn't work unless I wiggle it around, furl it a bit unfurl it, etc.
So that drum is totally packed (not loose or gunked up or anything). I hope this actually explains what I mean better. My 5/16 line should be here tomorrow. I'm really hoping it will work out well. Also, I totally went overboard with my ideas of a pendant. I have some extra line, and I can just put a freaking bowline in if I wanted. I'm going to do that, instead of feeling all powerless to do it "right".
I find it interesting... this discussion regarding line. Apparently the diameter is the determining factor that you all use to purchase line regardless of the application, or line construction. Twenty years ago that was the case but today nothing could be further from reality.
Let's start with the "3/8 should be right on the furler" recommendation. I have yet to see a drum on a furler sized correctly for a 36 foot boat that is designed to hold 3/8" diameter line in the length sufficient to roll up a 150% headsail. I understand that a 3/8" diameter line would feel better on the hands than a more suitable diameter line, but if that were the criteria why not stuff it with 5/8" fluffy braid? Unless you have a non overlapping headsail on your furler, your drum is likely not going to functionally hold enough 3/8" diameter line to do the job. Jordan's case has proven that point. I suspect looking at the images of his drum, 5/16" should more than be sufficient and will eliminate the problem of over stuffing.
Next, "You will be in a world of hurt trying to drag that big 150 down in a squall if the 5/16 twine breaks". First off, a prudent sailor has the 150% rolled away long before the squall gets there. A good quality 5/16" diameter, (8mm) polyester jacket/polyester core yacht braid has a breaking strength today of around 3200 pounds depending on the manufacture. Need I say more? Now if you purchase a no name Depot House or Ebay special, who knows what the line was designed and built to withstand. If you were to upgrade that polyester line to a polyester jacket/Dyneema core that same 8mm line has a breaking strength of over 7600 pounds. As a reference, the typical 1x19 stainless wire cable used in your headstay that your furler is wrapped around on your 36 footer, has a breaking strength of 6300 pounds.
In the case of furlers, improper headstay tension (under tensioned) leads to excessive head stay sag which is the single cause for rotational resistance of the furling system. If your furler does not spin without excessive effort have your headstay sag checked and properly tension your headstay.
"Your sheets and halyards should be 1/2". Remember it might be your butt hanging from one." Where do I start.... On the typical 36 foot cruising boat, the halyard tension on a jib halyard with a furler is perhaps a couple of hundred pounds. The halyard basically keeps the sail from sliding back down the luff foil so the tension is minimal. even the cheapest Depot House line will do the job. The mainsail is another story. Loading on a main halyard could reach several thousand pounds. Again, a 8mm (5/16") polyester/polyester braid line has a breaking strength of 3200 pounds. Lets say your main halyard winch is a #16 (mine is). This typically means that the winch has a built in force multiplyer of 16, so if you apply 1 pound of force the winch multiplies that force to 16 pounds. If you were to apply 100 pounds of force to your winch handle it would mulitply that effort to around 1600 pounds. Comparing the breaking strength of the 8mm line to the 1600 pounds clearly shows that you have around a 2 to 1 safety factor. Does anyone really think 1/2" line will run freely through your halyard sheaves at the top of your mast or even the halyard box? 1/2" or 12mm polyester braid has a breaking strength of 7000 pounds by the way.
Now let's turn to line construction. Back in the day when ships were wood and men were iron, manila rope was state of the art. Fresh off of the spool new 1/2" manila line has a breaking strength of around 2300 pounds, 5/16" - 700 pounds. Now looking at those numbers, the 1/2" halyard concept makes more sense. The basic grade of yacht line today is manufactured with a polyester core and surrounded with a polyester jacket. Polyester is what Dacron sails are made of, Dacron is the legal name for the material. For the money it is the best value when looking at general performance and longevity. For the average cruising or daysailer this product meets 90% of all their requirements. A better grade of line would be constructed of a Dynema core with the same polyester jacket. This blend of materials typically doubles the breaking strength of the typical Ploy/poly line. Performance goes up from there with a line equipped with a better grade Dyneema known as SK99 trippling the breaking strength of a poly/poly. Each step along the way adds in extra cost but depending on application provides required performance and reduces weight.
I have talked about nothing regarding line stretch. For the cruiser, stretch is not retaliative. It may even extend the life of your boats running rigging gear. High performance low stretch lines do not absorb sudden loads from gusts or a wave into the headsail. They are design specifically not to stretch transmitting every ounce of load to the hull through the rigging for an increase in speed performance. A stretcher line absorbs some off the increased load and transmits the force more gently often saving a block or a mounting point from failure. We have seen gear failures on good old boats from sudden high loads directly transmitted by ultra low stretch products.
So as not to disappoint... I fully expect Dale to chime in here with a look of horror at the thought of climbing 3/8 line. the typical ploy/poly 3/8" (10mm) line is good for 4200 pounds. The same size line with a SK99 Dyneema core dings the bell at 13,800 pounds. At just around 200 pounds I would hang myself from the masthead on a 5/64" (1.8mm) SK99 Dyneema line as it has a rating of 850 pounds or better than a 4 to 1 margin of safety.
One additional quality consideration regarding rope. (By the way, it is referred to as rope while on the spool, line when it is cut and by its function when it is applied, such as a jib sheet.) The type of weave is very important. Many yarns need to be woven in a specific way and at a specific weave angle to optimize performance both in strength and handling. Rope manufactures that weave strictly for cost per foot simply don't give a damn. Often they make up for a low quality material selection of construction method with pretty colors (Home depot). The selection of materials and the construction methods that comprise a length of line also dictate how the line physically handles in day to day operation. Does you line Twist? Hockle? (self knot or bind while going through a fairlead or block) Does the jacket pill or snag? Turn into stiff wire after a year or so in the sun? Each type of line has it best application. Some are great for halyards while the same line would suck for sheets. Unfortunately there are fewer and fewer people that are up to speed on today's choices and their best applications, still fewer behind the big box marine outlet counters. Annapolis Sailing Performance, APS, an excellent sailing oriented shop on the east coast (some will argue the best) recently went out of business (not COVID related) due to the Amazons of the world selling everything they no nothing about. You get what you pay for.
So... if we learned anything here it is the lines construction not diameter that should be considered when purchasing line. Diameter is a consideration when it comes to existing rope clutches and self tailers as well as comfort in the hands, but it must be tempered by application with caution.
You won't get this type of information at the typical West Marine store and certainly out of Amazon. We don't sell 25,000 feet of line yearly out of a small shop in a place like Buffalo NY for no reason. Also... we don't have a single spool of 1/2" diameter line on our racks except for nylon anchor line, and the largest sailboat in Buffalo is a 52. Oh, you could watch any number of Youtube videos made by people that know less that the majority of people watching them, or you could find a chandlery staffed by knowledgeable, honest people and reward them with your hard earned dollars. Or.... you can continue to cling to misinformation and old outdated beliefs. Either way, Good sailing.
Dale
Obersheimers
Maruska, Hull #40
Just to add an unrelated dimension to the discussion, I use 3-strand for everything. Certainly old school and likely I'm just a reactionary but have never liked the feel or "predictability" of braid. All the new sheets, docklines, halyards, fender penants and all the rest are 3-strand on dear Amity.
BUT, you say, properly spec'ed. braid is far superior for halyards because of its low stretch. That is certainly true but in my world the difference in halyard stretch matters not a jot in our short (365) rigs. The only braid lines left on Amity are the club, house flag & courtesy flag halyards... and those will be replaced before we launch in '21.
Wow Dale. Thank you for the schooling! The numbers were very informative. And yeah, I can see where my old school training from 40 years ago is no longer relevant. Journey still had wire to rope halyards. I even replaced them with... wire to rope halyards.
And I really do appreciate you chiming in. That was the reason I mentioned you by name.
Could you and your shop do a running rigging kit specifically for a long term cruising 365? Or would even that be too generic to apply to all the owners here?
I don't know if it'd be helpful, but I can break out the itemized list. The invoice isn't quite as useful for the specific measurements of each piece, but it gave me a good idea as to how things are setup now.
SV
Each boat is rigged differently depending on what gear is aboard. There are many of items such as main sheet that would be almost universal but for the most part sailors tend to customize their boat and equipment to their own desires.
One thing we have learned is that many people purchase line by what color this is despite what we may suggest. Then there is the situation where the Captain decides what type of line and the Admiral selects the color.
Dale
Well, this particular thread is about to be retired. We're going to go ahead and get her name put on the back, at which point I will do the rechristening, and I'll introduce you all to the new name as Kapala is struck from the records of the deep. :)
Got some safety gear, and some gadgets. Lot's of boat work going on. I have one more layer of gelcoat on my battery box for the 200Ah LiFePo4 batteries. That took a lot longer than expected due to the weather, but I'm feeling more comfortable with fiberglass work. I'm still not great at it, but I've managed to collect enough equipment that I can use polyester resin and gelcoat without using any disposable items (except the brushes). I've got a MEK dispenser, and silicone mixers/graduated cylinders, etc.
New VHF is being installed by the better half now, and I'm prepping for the configuration of the Inverter/Charger once the battery is hooked up. I did wind up going with 4/0 battery cables, just sized to the inverter, not use. Those will be here tomorrow, along with a neat heavy duty Hammer crimper. Should be cool. She's going up the mast at some point this week in order to replace the red/green navigation light halfway up, run the flag halyard to the spreaders, replace the windex, and install the B&G anemometer. Oh, between the B&G gadgets, the Victron Battery Monitor, the Inverter charger, and the new VHF, I actually am going to need to get my NMEA 2000 system setup.
Oh, and since our plans are solidifying, I did go ahead and splurge a bit. I got a 32" Lewmar folding wheel. Damn it makes life so much easier in the cockpit when not sailing, and actually works better than the original wheel, because there was play in the wheel before, since the ... key? ... and the hub of the wheel degraded together. We had to actually trim a bit from the key to get the new wheel on (not much, literally just hitting an edge with some 100 grit sandpaper for a minute or two (and some grease, and a deadblow hammer). Very cool.