Hi Everybody,
I commissioned a company on Shelter Island to design and install a dodger on my 365 Ketch.
A week ago I started getting phone calls from friends on the dock saying I should stop payment on the check.
I think when I said dodger they though I said tent. Having trouble adding up everything that's seems wrong with this design.
Any feedback is welcome along with picture of other Pearson dodgers for comparison that I can share with this vendor in San Diego.
Pete, SV Tartanic
Do a search on BING for "Pearson 365 pictures". There are a bunch and some with good shots of various dodger set-ups.
Here's a shot of mine. Its getting a bit long in the tooth age wise, but i like the design and intend to copy it.
Looks good!
How do you deal with furling the mizzen? Do you have a stack-pack on it?
The center piece unzips out very quickly. I do need a couple of folding steps added to the mizzen mast when i can get up and deal with the sail. Right now I stand one foot on the cabin hatch and one foot on a mast winch. I know that's asking for trouble soon. LOL . And right now, no stack pack, but every time I put the cover back on I mumble to myself that one is coming soon...
Can you fold the bimini frame down?
Thanks for that picture Scott. I have a better understanding of the issue with a dodger on the Ketch. The overhang from the aft portion of the roof that you get on a sloop which is usably at least 12" is just not there with the Ketch. As a result the dodger appears foreshortened. So you end up having some kind of removable flap in order to get to the base of the mizzen.
Bimini has it own problems. The design I'm working on has port and starboard section framework with a open slot in the middle. That allows you to reach up to mizzen boom and flake the mizzen sail. The slot also allows for clear view of the masthead (bonus). The two halves of the Bimini sunbrella should provide adequate shade. A flap snaps on to close the slot when you are not sailing or if its raining.
Pete Weisskopf
S/V Legacy, you have the arrangement I have seen most on the ketch. Also high enough for us normal height sailors to look under without stooping. I have also seen a similar dodger with an awning or boom tent over the cockpit proper. None are conducive to handling the mizzen. I can't handle the mizzen even if there is nothing over the cockpit because I am a normal height guy and the mizzen boom is too high for me to handle.
I only fly the mizzen when it is going to be up for several hours or more. I am getting too old for those young man sail changing/handling antics.
Received some images from my friendly yacht broker at the marina showing an internal close up of the dodger in question. Thrilled with the huge full view polycarbonate windows all around. Pretty sure I can work with this after all.
Thanks to you all for your feedback.
Still working on old hull#6. Pete Weisskopf,
Pete,
Looks taller than mine was. Problem I had was when close hauled, the boom actually rubbed on the dodger frame right through the canvas of the dodger. Might want to have someone put your main up and tighten the sheet to see if you have clearance.
Definitely the first thing I established so the position of the boom you see is where it sits close hauled. But I will recheck. Full batten loose foot main may set a little different than others. My plan was to see over the top when standing at the helm. Plus my mast and boom is about 2" taller than other 365s.
Thanks for thinking of that. Pete
Shade for the helmsman gets complicated. AMITY has no provision for shade yet... only the usual dodger for the companionway. Two of my must-haves for shading the helmsman are 1) the ability to furl the mizzen without gymnastics and 2) to be able to fully see the mizzen when under sail. None of the biminis I've seen allow either.
Something like this might fill the bill. Simple & old school... would have to be struck to fly the mizzen but I have no problem with that. See attached example:
I can fold the bimini down if needed. On a side note, even with the middle piece removed I have a pretty terrible view of my sails. On the next bimini replacement, i will be putting a window on each side of the bimini. (Would also like to come up with some side curtains that attach to the dodger and the middle part. Not sure how i would pull that off yet)
Or this which can double as a downwind sail in a pinch...
I like the blue skies and puffy clouds underneath. Might make you feel better about that crappy weather that made you reach for it in the first place.
Our bimini extended back to where it just touched the mizzen backstays which provided shade and kept the helmsman dry unless storm running. Also had snap in curtains made out of mesh that blocked the sun and rain but let air in which was nice in the tropics. I would do clear Esenglass here in the NW.
I havent had to attack this problem yet, but had in the back of my mind the idea that 2 solar panels across the bimini frame would suffice
as long as you could cantilever or fold them out each side to work with the mizzen through the gap created
its about the best place for panels anyway
Considering the positioning of the rigging, and being at a marina right now with entrance on the starboard side, forward of the first freestanding stanchion. The current Bimini (no dodger) is pretty weak, and not ideal (impedes both aft winches and two sitting positions... I'll post pictures tomorrow). I was actually thinking that I should replace the wire lifeline right there, and make it solid as a base for a Bimini. Thoughts?
Jordan,
My boats mizzen boom was modified by its last owner, it was raised. He was probably taller and appreciated the headroom. The boat is not fitted with a bimini. The mizzen boom was raised approximately 6". I can only assume the 6" was how much the mizzen sail could raise up or perhaps they raised the boom and had the mizzen recut or a new sail made.
What ever the reason the added height is much appreciated. Raising the boom could be a great option to fit a bimini properly.
Just a thought.
Dale
Maruska
Here is what I am working with.
(https://i.imgur.com/5wkgkeR.jpg)
See how it would impede that winch? Granted, I don't know that the mizzen has been flown.
(https://i.imgur.com/8b0MPCR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FuZMoNW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iWTCpvb.jpg)
I think the fabric is actually okay (although some way to see the mizzen would be nice), and I'm also thinking of solar.
interesting, some differences
I think what I have is the original P365 bimini frame which attaches on the teak on the thwarts each side of the cockpit, the fittings are metal
I have a bag for the mizzen which has to come off to sail and a drop in for the main, both sails are probably original.
What I thought of doing was getting the sailmaker to make a drop in bag for the mizzen like the mian, and zip on shade along the centre beneath it
somehow stay each side out like the old boom tents we dont see around anymore, and scrap the bimini frame.
maybe off those nylon electric fence posts which are like 5/16" thick, but it would all have to come down in a blow.
The tent which just goes say 3ft each side could have windows or velcro covers that could peel back to see how the mizzen is going, but since it wont go all the way back to the end of the mizzen boom maybe peeking from behind would suffice. Its either that or just sun shade cloth I can fix to the bimini frame myself, which might work as well as anything.
Good idea about raising the boom a bit, its ok for me but if you are 6ft it would be right on the head
photos, one with the sail covers on and one when the bimini was up in queensland, before the covers were on
Gonna go ahead and resurrect this, because it looks like we're moving forward with it. Getting the dodger designed by the stainless guys who did our rigging. He's probably going to do the pushpit and the bimini as well (since I have ideas as to those two things working together). While I was searching about, I did find this page, that has our boat. I don't know if Caroline is still out there or what, but the photos are great (and I think I really like the dodger/bimini setup).
http://www.mostsailboats.org/1977-pearson-365/ (http://www.mostsailboats.org/1977-pearson-365/)
(http://photos.mostsailboats.org/1977/p/1977-Pearson-365_2427_6.jpg)
We just started on the design and measurements for the dodger and bimini. And I wanted to share a low sodium sailor moment. We were looking at the dodger, and main boom position. Dale has mentioned before about checking the height of the mizzen boom, which I have done multiple times, and confirmed it's raised. But you want to know something ridiculously silly? As he was measuring it out, he asked if the boom was too low. I told him about the current main sail that doesn't quite fit, so I am not sure where it sits when it is correct. Dude looked at me, and just asked me if I'd just like to tighten the double braid section of the topping lift. Didn't even cross my mind, and holy crap it's so much nicer getting in and out of the boat. I feel like a jackass, but I'm giggling at my idiocy really hard right now.
Well, the design got changed just a bit. But almost the entire frame is up! I know it's not necessarily easy to see in the picture, but what you see there is the frame for what will be an amazing spray hood/dodger, and a bimini frame. And if you can use just a bit of imagination, you can see the potential with the lines of the enclosure. I'm not certain how we're going to wind up designing the canvas, but in theory, I could make it look super streamlined! Oh man I'm stoked. This is 7/8" solid 316 stainless. Woohoo!
Also, we've already got ideas as to what will change when it comes time to modify the way all of this sits (removing the teak hull deck joint and fiberglassing it a la Uma). Got this is nice. Plus it's been raining for the last 3 days practically non-stop, so finally, the first day of calm and the ill-fitting bimini cover came off for the install. Not too shabby.
(Click for imgur link)
(https://i.imgur.com/KQtMpyH.jpg) (https://imgur.com/KQtMpyH)