I feel like a newby asking this question but my 365 is my first ketch. I have experience on sloops, so not a complete noob. The question i have is how do you use (and when) the adjustable split back-stays on the missen. It doesn't let the boom sheet out very far before touching the stays. And how far would you need to sheet out anyhow? It seems at a pretty early point that you would be shadowing the main. I've heard it hurts more than it helps on a close hauled tack. So is it only used on a reach and broad reach? Fill me in on the things i may not be expecting.
Treat then as running backstays with the lazy one loosened so it does not interfere with the mizzen boom.
Legacy,
Congratulations on the purchase of a twin sticker. A ketch or a yawl is a wonderful thing in that it gives you options, many more options. There is also something to be said for redundancy especially while on an off shore passage and something unexpectedly happens.
The mizzen back stay set up on your ketch consists of two individual adjustable back stays. Underway you typically only use one at a time, the windward one. So... after you tack you pull in the new upwind back stay and cleat it and then ease off on the downwind back stay. By easing the downwind back stay you can ease the mizzen boom as far down as you want, all the way to the side shrouds if you like without interference. After you tack or gibe you pull in the new upwind back stay and ease off the new leeward back stay if needed. Simple as it gets. It is good practice to always have at least one mizzen back stay on at all times.
As far as the mizzen itself is concerned there are little things necessary to make it most effective while sailing upwind. First of all, the mizzen sail itself is cut very flat or should be. This is because upwind it lives on the edge of the backwash from the main. The mainsail bends the air ever so slightly to windward as it exists the main so the mizzen must be trimmed even closer to centerline than the main to accommodate for this. On a boat of this design sheeting angles are not very close in so it never becomes a real problem. The flatness of the cut of the mizzen is a big help in regards to main interference.
As far as trimming the mizzen goes, I set the main where it needs to be for whatever point of sail the boat is on, and then set the mizzen boom approximately 5 degrees higher than the main boom. If the mizzen sail was cut flat or remains flat after 20 years of use all is well. If it is too full of a cut, or it is blown out and baggy it may luff or push a bit forward just behind the mizzen mast but you would have to be very hard on the wind. I suspect sailing too hard on the wind at the point of stalling the boat and introducing much too much side slip is the issue.
Now, as the wind pipes up you have several options. One would be to drop the mizzen altogether reducing overall sail area and sail under head sail and main alone. Another option is to leave the mizzen up and take a slab out of the main with a reef. As the wind continues to build the combination of a head sail, reefed main and no mizzen is a great option. If the wind continues to build even further the head sail, no main and full mizzen becomes a nice combination as the head sail wants to drive the bow down and the mizzen wants to rotate the boat up thus the result of the two is a nice balance.
This set up eliminates having to climb up on deck and messing with the main if it gets worse. Keeping that main lashed to its boom all safe and sound and staying in the cockpit in a real blow has its advantages. The mizzen is much easier to reach right above your head and the head sail typically is on a furler so it is easy to control. A head sail/mizzen set up is known as a Jib and Jigger rig. You will find it very handy and very nicely behaved when the wind is up past the mid 20's. As the wind eases a bit you can throw a slab back into the main for more power.
The mizzen mast on a ketch has several other benefits. Many say it's in the way when entering or departing the companion way but quite honestly we find it most reassuring as a hand hold while entering or exiting. You will notice when you have company aboard and the boat is healed they will gravitate to holding on to the mizzen while moving about. It also make a good foot stop when the boat is healed. One of the best things I did during the refit is to install one of those Forespar deck lights on the mizzen. I already had one on the main but with two brightly shining down the boat it is awash in light during night time docking maneuvers and it lights up the companionway stairs very nicely.
Because of the mizzen your main back stay is also split. That lower section of the back stay wire is the handiest handhold or clip on point while wearing a harness you will ever find entering and exiting a side deck. Many say the mizzen boom makes it difficult to fit a bimini to the boat. This is somewhat true however there is no reason you can raise the mizzen boom 6 inches or so to make that happen. My boat already had that modification done to it when I got it as one of the prior owners must have been very tall. It is an easy modification to perform.
The mizzen mast is also an excellent placer to mount a radar dome. Mounted here it doesn't get the snot beat out of it while tacking by the leech of the head sail. The mizzen mast is also a great location to mount a wind generator if you are so inclined to have one of those. The mizzen boom is the best and safest way to retrieve something heavy from over the side such as an outboard or an overboard person. Again the mizzen boom is right overhead and can be used from the safety of the cockpit.
At an anchorage or perhaps even while underway a mizzen boom tent can be a wonderful thing as it covers the majority of the cockpit. When at anchor the mizzen sail can prevent or at least minimize the hunting while at anchor that many boats experience. Because the sail is cut very flat and located at the rear of the vessel it tends to weather vane the boat into the wind and lock it there.
An additional sail option at your disposal is the use of a mizzen stay sail or even a mizzen spinnaker. Above the added advantage that the mizzen gives you on a reach or broad reach, fitting a mizzen stay sail or mizzen kite to the boat adds yet another option especially in an effort to avoid running the eggbeater at all cost. The sheet of the stay sail is attached to the aft end of the mizzen boom and the tack goes to a windward stanchion base forward of the mizzen mast. Many a day while headed off of the wind or on a deep reach we have flown our asymmetrical (cruising) spinnaker, Main, Mizzen stay sail and our mizzen sail. Besides having lots of strings to pull the boat is a freight train. If you opt not to have pretty ripstop aboard you can just head down wind wing on wing on wing!
Another advantage of having the ketch rig is that it splits up the sail plan. Typically the ketch version of any boat has a larger combined sail area square foot wise than its sister sloop. This is partially due to some induced inefficiencies when very close hauled so the added sail area compensates for that. The biggest advantage of a split rig such as a ketch is that each of the sails is smaller even though they collectively add up to more than a sloop rig. This makes them easier to hoist because they are lighter and shorter. They are easier to carry off and on the boat because they are lighter both in construction because they are smaller, and their smaller size makes them once again lighter.
If you are an intercostal sailor bridge clearance is an important number. The 365 is such the case as the ketch is at that magical 50 ft mark and the sloop or the cutter is slightly over that. We dinged a bridge entering the C&D canal in the Chesapeake at high tide with our 36" VHF whip antenna. Had it been a sloop rig we would have had to pay for a new bridge.
The working loads on a twin stick boat are less because the sails are respectively individually smaller. The head sail alone is about 18" shorter along the clew on a 365 ketch vs. a 365 sloop because the mast is 18" further forward than the sloop version for balance reasons. Eighteen inches doesn't sound like much but think about cranking that last 18" in on your head sail each and every tack. Often times going to a twin stick rig allows an owner to move up to a bigger boat yet still be able to physically move the sails about and crank them in.
We pick up and carry many sails a day and our loft is upstairs of the store so it involves a set of stairs. Once you get over 35 feet a 150% head sail gets real heavy for the average person to move about especially if it is Dacron. Above 40 foot and getting a sail up on one's shoulder is a pain. We just took off a set of all Dacron sails off of a Leopard 40 catamaran and brought them in for some repairs. The main has a square top and really required two people to comfortably move it around. We have a customer with an Oyster 53, the spinnaker without the sock weighs over 80 pounds on its own.
Having a split rig like a ketch or yawl divides the sail plan up over an additional spar making everything a bit more manageable especially for older owners or couples.
After having owned a ketch for over 14 years now, I would never ever buy a compatibly sized boat in a sloop configuration. It is all about options and having a split rig makes options.
Good Sailing
Dale Tanski
Maruska Hull # 40 Cutter Ketch
I might add that in the case of lost steering from the helm, a ketch (or yawl) can be steered quite easily with sail balancing & trimming. Good safety feature.
Wow some great replies! Thanks guys! This should be stickied.
So i can totally slacken one of the mizzen back-stays? Off center it, one back-stay will still bear any loads the mizzen sail will place on it? I do also have a mizzen stay-sail, so that should be interesting to use also.
One more question about the mizzen mast. What would be the maximum weight you would place on the boom end, if the boom is 90 degrees to the boats center-line? I have a 9.9 hp outboard that i would like to use the mizzen to lift and place on my back railing. I believe the weight of the motor is about 95 lbs. I've hung (210lbs) from the boom while its on center with no issues, but 90 degrees off is a bit different.
Make up the mizzen running backstay on the opposite side the boom is on and you'll be fine. Am sure it goes without saying but regular inspection of the topping lift should be part of the drill. Cheers!
I know this hasn't been updated in a while, but it was ridiculously useful. Also, FollowTheBoat just released a pretty great video about ketches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atYZTniOI04
And here is another resource. I am in the process of rebuilding my roller furler, and will then get a sail for it. So I've been digging deep into the different sail plans possible with a ketch.
The Benefits of a Ketch Rig (http://features.coastalboating.net/FeatureArticles/IdealBoat/Ketch_Rig/Ketch_Trim.html)