Its the end of my second week owning ZAYA
I thought, before I work on todays list I shall empty the bilge using the pump.
I placed a hose into the bilge exit at the transom so I could collect the contents of the bilge. Didnt want to mess up the dock with that cocktail of crap!
Turned on the pump, click .... it didnt go well. The contents raced through the pump, exited somewhere upstream and flowed back down into the bilge. On inspection the pump out line had cracks all over the place and had to be binned. New 1 1/2" line installed and the bilge was emptied perfectly, but by now it was time to go home.
Still, on the upside I needed to know this and I now have a securely clipped and fully functional bilge system as it should be.
Did find this in the forward cabin though, a spinnaker with my hull number on it
Just a quick "heads up". My mast would not fit through the deck collar with the wires taped on the outside like that. We had to leave them inside the mast, pass the mast through the deck, then route the wires through the base of the mast before setting it into the step. Also, a carpet or thin piece of plywood on the bulkhead next to the mast will avoid scratches and damage when they slide the mast in.
Ditto the wires on the outside and carpet on the bulkhead. As a heads up, it is a bit unnerving reaching up inside the spar while it is hanging there.
Dale
Might a fuel bladder do the trick? See: http://atlinc.com/marine.html
See also: http://atlinc.com/atl-marine-fuel-bladder-tank-installation.html
Zulu,
You might want to consider moving the engine forward onto the cabin sole, then you can get the fuel tank out, rebuild the fuel tank bunks and replace the tank. Once you get it out onto the sole, you can give it a good look and see if anything needs work.
New tank: http://bodylens.com/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=16
These are pictures and a diagram of the fuel tank I designed. The dimensions of the new tank are 29" wide, x 25" fore/aft. This gives me more room between the engine and the fwd face of the tank, but still maintain the 50 gallons. Now I can stick my whole head in that gap and see what is going on with the water pump and everything else back there. It does not sit on wood. There is aluminum angle welded to the fwd and aft faces of the tank. These rest on aluminum angle bolted to wood that I glassed to the hull. All bolts that hold tank to boat are 3/8" SS bolts and washers, isolated from aluminum with .031 teflon washers. My old tank was pitted and leaking because it sat on wet wood with poorly fitted rubbery material. It was held down with galvanized plumbers tape. No, there is no dissimilar metal contact and not metal to wood contact.
Because of poor planning, I replaced the tank before I even thought of removing the engine. I do a lot of things out of sequence. I was able to remove that tank by cutting (then later replacing) the vertical glassed-in plywood that runs the length of the engine/tank area I also already had the starboard bulk that separated the cabin from cockpit lockers removed because I'm building quarter berth.
It's really not that hard moving the engine, with the right tools.
You only have to disconnect a few hoses and wires, then unbolt the engine from its bed.
I have some pictures on http://bodylens.com/gallery (look for Engine Install and Engine Removal
I also uploaded some high res. pictures to http://bodylens.com/367/EngineRemoval.zip
THis is a zip archive that includes the two pictures referenced bwlow (P365A-1 and P365A-2)
First, you need measure the engine length and width to make sure it will can be moved forward far enough to give enough room to slide the tank forward.
It should be able to slide forward between the galley cabinet and stbd settee/nav cabinet. Once you conclude that you have the room, you'll probably have to remove some of the galley cabinetry to give you easier access. Just a bunch of screws and 1"x 1" cleats. Beware, the screws are brass and several will likely have their heads snapped off because of corrosion.
What you'll need to move the engine is a "C" shaped beam. Dale made one and I welded up a copy of his. Pictures and dimensions are in the zip file hyperlinked above.
It's basically a square made of 1.5" x 3" rectangular tubing (plain steel) with one side missing, like a squared "C". I called this the "forklift".
At the top of the forklift near the end is an attachment point for the chain hoist.
At the bottom of the forklift (underside) is an attachment point for the engine. Make sure they are directly in line so the forklift does not get off balance. This is what is going to reach aft, under the bridge deck to the center point of the engine.
Run the main halyard down to the boom and attach it to the body of the chain hoist.
Bring the spinnaker halyard aft and attach it to the chain hoist as a backup. Both halyards run through their own snatch block (or whatever block) and are connected to the chain hoist with their own anchor shackle. The shackles of the snatch or whatever blocks are fastened to the "engine outhaul" line, see below. Also see the Engine Install pictures on http://bodylens.com/gallery. The Engine Removal pictures don't adequate pictures of the halyard arrangement. At this point, if you plan to remove engine to the dock, top the boom up enought to where you think you have enough vertical clearance to clear the cockpit as you swing the boom over the dock. Boat will heal abit when you do this.
The boom is only a fairlead, you are not using the boom as a lifting point. All the weight of the engine goes up the chain hoist to the halyards. The main halyard is static (unless you guessed height wrong, then you have to top up the boom some more and take up the halyards, you use the chain hoist for all lifting. The spinnaker is backup. The two blocks on the halyards just above the chain hoist are just fairleads for when you move the engine fore and aft.
The next line you set up is the "engine outhaul". This line is tied to the shackles of the two blocks are fairleads for the halyards. It runs aft to a block on the end of the boom, then forward to the mast on the block, then along the cabin to the mainsheet winch. You will need a winch for this line.
Down below, you need some 6" x 6" (or some dimension) blocks onto which you will place the engine so the oil pan does not take the weight of the engine. Ideally, have a set of cheap engine mounts to put on the engine, then you can set the engine on its mounts on the 6 x 6 blocks.
To move the engine, haul on the engine outhaul (remember, this is pulling the chain hoist aft) so there is a slight aftward angle. This is important because when you haul up on the chain hoist and lift the engine, it will slide forward and go crashing into you or anyone who is down below. With the engine outhaul, you have full control of the engine's fore/aft movement.
A problem you will have is the balance of the engine under the forklift, depending on where your lifting points are. I have two lifting points and connected the two with a piece of 5/16" chain with just enough slack to slip a chain hook on. If you have too much slack, you might run out of vertical distance when hoisting. First try was imbalanced, so I moved the chain hook to another link on the short chain until I got it close to balanced. For the install, I welded up a bracket that connects the two lifting points and got near perfect balance. You'll see that in the Engine Install pictures as a gray angle iron spanning the top of the engine, diagonally.
At first, you will only be able to lift the engine a little way because the forklift or the engine parts will hit the underside of the bridge deck. This is where you carefully ease of on the engine outhaul so the engine moves forward. As it moves forward, it will descend because the halyard will get longer. That's just the geometry of the halyard's angle, when it moves forward, it lengthens.
Ideally, you need one person on the engine outhaul and chain hoist, and one person below ensuring the engine clears and issuing commands to the person up on deck. I was able to get by with one during one of the 5 times I removed the engine (long story, bad planning).
Now, it's just a matter of easing the engine forward and adjusting the height so the engine clears everything and comes to rest on the 6x6" blocks.
I just realized that you have a ketch; therefore, the main boom might not reach far enough aft for this setup. If that is the case, you will have to use a block and tackle connecting the bottom/fwd corner of the forklift to your main mast (see picture 365A-1.jpg). You'll use this to move the engine forward and a chain hoist on your main halyard, as described above. You'll have to work that out. You might be able to use a single lift point (see 365A-2). Maybe Dale can add insight on that aspect, those two pictures are his. Not sure what you need to arrange to prevent engine from crashing forward if you can't haul the chain hoist aft enough. You'll have to work that out.
If you want more details, let me know and I'll answer your questions.
One thing to thing about if you do replace the tank is access to the raw water pump. Right now it is a little tight to get an impeller extractor in. A few inches extra clearance would make that job easier.
On building your own fuel tank, you might run that by a surveyor. On a sale or insurance survey that may or may not be a concern.
Zulu,
I had a mistake in my long post, which I corrected. I mistakenly stated that you use main halyard to lift. That was wrong. You just use the halyards to hold the chain hoist at whatever height you need to clear whatever you will pass the engine over. Then use the chain hoist to do all the lifting.
We used the main halyard and the mizzen halyard to straps on the boom where the chainfall was mounted. Important to not let the boom take the brunt of the weight spread out over its span.
Story and pictures on Dana's blog here:
http://www.galleywenchtales.com/2016/03/splash-amphibious-return.html
And: http://www.galleywenchtales.com/2016/02/heave-ho-out-she-goes.html
The engine will come out without cutting the cabinet. Just remove the alternator and the exhaust manifold. To remove the tank whole the cabinet must be cut.
Good afternoon,
Attached are dimension drawings for (2) 23 gallon aluminum fuel tanks that I installed side by side under the cockpit in the existing fuel tank "cradle". I cut my old tank up with a Saw-Zall. Nice thing about these, is that they can fix through the starboard cockpit locker, so no need to remove the engine. The tanks are tied together with an equalizing line. Fuel is drawn from the one tank, and returned (excess from the injector pump) to the other tank.
Todd R
We had a bad experience with a home made fiberglass tank that was not even 10years old on our 365 that we just bought in Sept. Resin and fibers were dissolving into the diesel plugging up the fuel filter. The surveyor we hired thought it would be a problem and said it needed to be covered with gelcoat. Fortunately, it was easy to cut the tank out.
Nice pictures. What was your procedure for connecting the triadic stay? Doesn't appear connected yet in the pictures. You get hoisted up the mizzen?
Since the triadic is the mizzen's head stay, recommend setting up the mizzen staysail halyard to a hard point somewhere forward, maybe at the main spar boom gooseneck fitting, for mizzen mast stability/support. Also set up the mizzen running backstays before you go up. After-action report is requested.
Bring champagne Wednesday.
She looks great. Merry Christmas & fair winds for '18!
Great to see her in the water!
Love the hull color...
Dale
When you clean up or replace the buss bars, you might want to give them a spray of this: https://ihiqa2kjxfb4dhp9872la1cm-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ff_brochure.pdf .
I keep a rattle can or two of it aboard & have had excellent results in keeping connections clean & bright. Excellent salt fog resistance.
She looks great posing there at the dock all neat & tidy... only an owner knows what "interesting" projects lurk behind the gleaming topsides and spotless deck. Hopefully that fuel tank chore will be the last of the truly miserable jobs you'll be facing though rebuilding a head which contain the leavings of the last person to avail themselves of its service comes a real close second.
Pictures of that tank removal adventure would be good. Sooner or later all 365's face the same operation.
Cheers!
As they used to say in the old '60's hippie days, "Keep the faith baby".
My soapbox: Why, in the name of he** don't these naval designers design in serviceability??? Do they honestly believe a critical component will never need service/repair/replacement? Pearson isn't the only offender by a long shot. And a mild steel mast step which bilge water regularly drains over? This is basic stuff. Things that are nigh on impossible to service wind up not being serviced until there's a failure and a failure on a boat can be catastrophic. End of soapbox.
Add some flowery-smelling detergent to the water in the fuel tank. This will emulsify the remaining diesel, kill the fumes & be kinder to your nose.
Good pictures! Good progress too.
Have you considered a fuel cell? See: http://atlinc.com/marine.html .
Cheers!
ZULU40,
Looks great! We removed our old tank a few weeks ago, and opted for a smaller plastic one that would (barely) fit through the locker. The old tank was a plywood fiberglass construction.. I couldn't imagine having to cut a metal one out!
Good Job!
-Isaac
I don't know if you have ever used a nibbler, but that might be a handy tool for that job. They are available as drill attachments and as stand alone tools. Good for tight quarters and doesn't throw sparks.
Super looking job on the battery box!
Regarding the rigging, looks like the main and mizzen mast are about vertical and parallel. Is that correct and recommended? Our mizzen has a slight tilt toward aft and a rigger had tuned it up that way. Always wondered if that was correct.
Zulu,
I did not like the engine access. When I replaced the tank, I changed the dimensions so it's a little shorter, but wider. Maintained the ~50 gallons, but now I have nearly a foot of space aft of the engine.
I never thought of moving the engine forward. If you do that, let me know how it works out. That'd be interesting.
If you want closer pictures or measurements, let me know.
http://bodylens.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=16&pid=390#top_display_media
That additional space makes it much easier to change the raw water pump impeller. I moved the oil filter forward so I can get to it from the cabin, not the cockpit locker. I also added a strainer between the raw water pump and the heat exchanger to capture impeller bits (also accessible from the cabin, not shown in pictures The alternator adjustment arm is much easier. I made that with a tie rod and and two stainless steel rod ends.
https://www.mcmaster.com/8419k72
https://www.mcmaster.com/59915k23 (one left hand, one right and thread)
I also tore out all the cabinetry and am rebuilding it so all the panels will be removable and I'll be able easily get to all parts of the engine.
I'm not close to finished with this.
I have no good pictures showing access to the engine with panels removed, but here are some that give you an idea of the access.
http://bodylens.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=43&pid=827#top_display_media
http://bodylens.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=473#top_display_media
http://bodylens.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=492#top_display_media
http://bodylens.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=497#top_display_media
http://bodylens.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pid=90#top_display_media
I actually don't recognize your engine at all weirdly enough. Our Westerbeke had a starter relay before the starter. The heater was powered directly from the heater switch next to the starter switch. Yours look MUCH different. Hard to tell from that melted mess but for sure some of those wires were just tapped off of that area to power up something else that it wasn't designed for. I think you will have a real mess of a time rewiring. Sorry Mate!
One thing for sure, something that should have been fused was NOT. No way you shoulda had that much melt without fuses blowing. Also, throw away that gray wire casing that is sitting there next to your engine. Use zip ties instead for wire bundling to allow the wires to thermally cool.
As bad as that looks and as much of a pain it will be to fix, you definitely dodged a bullet there my friend.
I rewired Journey's engine in less than a day. Throw away the engine disconnect and you should find enough extra wire coiled up somewhere to run the factory engine harness direct.
A chafed wire leading to a direct short or a corroded splice or termination leading to melted insulation then leading to a direct short. While you are about it, see if any of the existing wiring is tinned. If it isn't then copper corrosion can added to the list of possible causes. From there, I'd check all the other wiring; engine and hotel circuits.
Wiring diagram is in the Westerbeke manual on pages 40 and 41. Almost none of the wiring was from Pearson. The manual is posted up on this forum here: http://www.pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=1900.0
The big red button that looks like a remote start is a circuit breaker and needs to be replaced.
The harness between the instrument cluster and the block disconnect shown in picture #2 of your previous post is ~8 meters long and is likely coiled up behind your galley cabinets. You can cut off the block and use all that excess to directly wire the engine up.
Personally, and I have a bit of experience with this, I don't think there's anything wrong with copper wiring on a boat. ABYC got a wild hair up their ass 20 years ago and defined a new standard. The bigger problem is that the wires need to be terminated correctly and be supported/secured adequately. The issue on your boat is likely from heat and vibration making the insulation brittle from heat and then chafed through from vibration. This is why I suggest you get the wire out of the loom that has been safely protected behind your galley cabinet and use if rather than the wire that has been baked and rattled for the last 40 years.
Bundling to make it look clean is all well and good, but wire separation of disparate sizes is important. So is keeping the wires from laying on metal surfaces. Especially the engine itself. Disparate sizes is important as it won't matter if the 18ga wire has a 5 amp circuit breaker if it rubs through on a wire with a 30 amp circuit breaker. 30 amps will still make it burn.
If you do bundle them together (and it IS commonly done) then zip tie the heck out of them to keep them from vibrating against each other.
Wayne