I have found that the time restraints of owning your own marine retail store is at times overwhelming. Working 80 hours a week in the height of the season would be an easy week. There is always something to do and somebodies boat to work on. Remember, we have to make four quarters of profit in one quarter of business. Not much happens in Buffalo in January. This of course means that I rarely have the option of sailing my own boat. In fact it didn't even go in again this year.
While dropping my middle daughter off at New Hampshire university this fall we headed up the Maine coast getting as far as Belfast. We have been as far as Bar Harbor in past excursions. The thought has occurred to me to relocate Maruska up to someplace like Belfast Maine and leave her there. The plan would be to head up there three weeks a season and sail her exclusively for those three weeks. Once I am out of the store I'm OK its just getting out, my kids can cover just fine. Trust me, we would end up with far more use out of the boat in those three weeks than several seasons here. I suspect my kids will use the boat as well during other weeks.
Our business begins to drop off and normalize in July so I was thinking July, August and September one week each, but I have many questions that I am hoping you can help me with.
1) I know the water and thus the air temperature is colder up there, how cold is cold? I hate the heat. I would much rather add a layer.
2) Do I need heat aboard? Will we be dressed like Eskimos? Too cold to sail at night?
3) Fog, how bad is it really? If I head out would I be able to make it back at the end of a week? I am assuming radar is a must.
4) Is it crowded? How crowded? Where isn't it crowded?
5) How expensive is it to cruise up there? Basic things not big dinners out.
6) Is September too late?
7) I hear it rains a lot in the beginning of summer, is that true? Lots of rain when it does rain or a little rain all the time?
8) Should I be looking at perhaps Portland and basing out of there.
9) Where do the locals keep their boats? Cheaper digs would be great. I am looking for a mooring and a place to winter, amenities are not important at all.
10) Any special gear needed? Anchors, rode length, chain requirements?
11) Does Maine tax you if you leave your boat there? NY will assess you 8% use tax if you are in their waters more than 90 days.
12) Bugs?
I have already priced out a mooring and storage at Belfast. All in all it will cost just slightly more than a slip does here in Buffalo NY.
What say you?
Dale Tanski
Obersheimer Sailor Supply
Buffalo, New York
Maruska, Ketch #40
Dale,
I like the sound of your plan. Never sailed ME but spent some time in Bar Harbor around 45 years ago. One of my fondest memories as young man riding around on a motorbike. A recent tour of the area on Google earth confirms that it has changed a lot. What I recall about Bar Harbor was severe tidal current. Spent a night stranded on Bar Island sleeping on a rock. You could walk there at low tide. Good news is no flying pestilence from what I recall. Belfast looks like a better anchorage to me. Very rocky coast so your ground tackle upgrade might include 150-200' of chain. A color chart plotter, GPS and AIS, seems as useful as Digital Radar to me and easier to read. But would consider both for night sailing. All that info can be displayed on a single display or a tablet with shipboard wifi anywhere on the boat. It all depends on wireless phone service off shore. You may be able to navigate with no more than an IPhone at night. The Pearson has that bump out for a smoke stack. So a wood burning heater can't hurt. Swinging on a ball means you will need to generate your own power. Some combo of wind and solar is what I recommend.
I'm in similar yet different situation. Relocating back to the east coast for family in retirement and trying to decide if I should leave the boat in southern California for a winter getaway or return it to the Chesapeake and live out the winters. I'm leaning toward leaving it on the west coast. Many people I know leave their boats in Mexico for their winter get away. It be happy leaving my boat in San Diego although winters there can be a bit chili at night (40's).
I hope you plan comes together. Pete
Pete,
If my boat goes to Maine its yours to use anytime I'm not.
Dale
Hi Guys,
Having just returned from 10 days aboard in Maine on Tropicbird, I might be able to offer some advice. In the past, I cruised Maine for fifteen years aboard my Pearson Vanguard with my family and solo.
The season runs from late May to Oct 1. Fog is common in the first half of the summer, less so in the latter half. I got by for fifteen years without radar and considered my chartplotter a godsend when I first turned it on. Navigating with dividers and parallels was nerve racking. Now that I have radar AND a chartplotter, I have little anxiety about who or what might be out there.
Having said that, the 365 came with a vulnerability that frequently causes anxiety-lobster pots. There are thousands of them along most areas and they will snag your propeller! Our prop shaft and wheel really are vulnerable. My very First time out I hooked one. This was not a problem with my old boat which had the propeller in the aperture of its full keel- somewhat less maneuverable in tight quarters, but I never hooked a pot and never even tried to avoid them. Though I have a line cutter on Tropicbirds shaft, I chose to dive in-the water is very cold. My engine had not even been running when I was snagged, so the release was easy-doing it at night would be very, very scary. Doing it if the engine had been engaged would be next to impossible. Prop cutters work sometimes-sometimes they don't. Until I resolve the lobster pot vulnerability, I will not sail the boat in Maine at night. Its that dangerous. Towboat US regularly tows folks with wrapped pots. So that problem needs to be addressed before you can confidently pilot the boat at night in Maine.
Besides the lobster pot problem, everything else is a piece of cake. with radar and a chartplotter the area is a sailors paradise. Seals, eagles, osprey and every where you look an uncrowded and wildly scenic coast with abundant and usually free anchoring. As far as cold goes, you will want heat. The nights get cold, as low as 45 degrees last week. Days will be up in the 70-80s midsummer, cooler in spring obviously. I use propane because its quick and easy to install, but will be upgrading to a diesel heater in the future. In my opinion, a solid fuel heater is just silly when you have 50 gallons of diesel available and a wood box will last at most an hour or two before you need to scrounge up more firewood. Romantic to be sure, but not very practicle.
Belfast is a great area, better sailing that Casco bay, but both are beautiful. If you go to Casco, a great place to haul is the Royal River boat yard. The Dugas family run it and can do any work you need done to a very high standard, but they also cater to the do it your selfer with clean rest rooms and hot showers. Folks are welcome to stay aboard on the hard during the spring commissioning season-can't say enough good things bout the yard and the people.
Moorings are available from the town of Falmouth in Casco for Nonresidents for 280/year-you supply the block and tackle and there are many good contractors that will sell and set the mooring for you and maintain it for a reasonable annual cost. There may be a waiting list for a mooring, but then again, I was just there and the mooring field has grown a lot since my last visit-so they are still giving out permits.
Really to many great features to describe in one post, but would be happy to offer more ideas if you'd like. Feel free to ask anything else you'd like to know or pm me and will give you my cell.
Jim
Dale,
About 3 weeks ago, we also did a trip to Maine looking for boatyards. We live in Mass. and have kept the boat in RI for 5 years. I always wanted to sail in Maine and the places we looked at are about a 3 hour drive as opposed to our 2 now. Rearranging our length and frequency of trips might make that work. The places we looked are Great Island Boat Yard in Harpswell, Robinhood Marine Center in Georgetown (bought by Derecktor last year), and Sebasco Resort. The seasonal mooring cost was about $1400 for all of them with maybe some discount if you do winter storage. We ruled Sebasco out, can tend to be rolly and mosquitoes, though mosquitoes are plentiful everywhere in Maine. Great Island was awesome. Didn't really see the boats on the moorings there but I think the cheapest boat on the slips was a Hinckley picnic boat. Top rated service and ABYC and NMEA certified technicians. Well protected area. Robinhood was also really nice. Very well protected, very nice marina, looks like a little village. They have lots of moorings and would reduce the price to $1200 if we did winter storage with them. They have two slip options; full and limited. If you don't need water and electricity, you can chose the limited. Neither Great Island charges to put dinghies on the dinghy dock.
Before radar, there was supposedly a thing called "potato navigation". Many boats hauled Maine potatoes and when it was foggy, they would throw a spud off the bow. If they heard a splash, they knew they were good. I wouldn't recommend it.
Mike
Mosquitos in Maine are not all that bad. Typically, they are not very active except at dusk. I never saw one in Falmouth in ten years of mooring there. Just came back from 10 days in Caso and Boothbay and did not see a single bug. There are spots that are notorious and Sebasco is close to one of them, but in general a feww yards off the beach and they are non existent.
Jim,
Thanks for the great reply. I currently have an old Furuno monocolor radar that came with the boat. I had never owned radar before and actually tested it in our yard at home. The damn thing would show the individual tees around the house! We found it very helpful on the trip home down the Potomac bay at night. Around here we only use it to check on the occasional freighter traffic if we are out at night. I also currently have a Simrad color chart plotter but am thinking of buying a new system that overlays the radar right onto the chart. Navigation is one thing but fog sucks because you could be exactly where you think you are, but still bang into something or someone else.
I have a heat/AC unit that I acquired from a retrofit I did on a customers boat. I suspect with the water temp down as low as it gets in Maine, it will not heat very well and it is also a 120 vac unit. I do have an Espar forced air unit which should do the trick nicely and of course it is 12 volt dc. Nothing like a toasty warm boat on a crisp evening.
If you could please start thinking of places like Royal River Boat Yard that are very affordable and like do-it-yourselfers. We don't need anything fancy, the boat has all we really need. I would rather drive another hour to get someplace better than land base at a place that doesn't fit our needs. I have been talking to Front Street Shipyard in Belfest. Everything is there but at the same time they seem pricey and a bit open as far as a mooring goes. We definitely do not need a slip. They also have lots of 100 footers to already take care of. I do like the Belfest area however. How about Portland?
If this works out, my long term goal would be to purchase a small piece of property within 20 or so miles from the coast and build a pole barn to store in for the winter. I have a trailer so I would only have to find someone to pull it or pick up a bigger used old farm tractor and do it myself. From the numbers I have seen for winter storage and shrink wrapping, a pole barn would pay for itself in 4 to 5 years of winter storage and then one could recoup the investment if something changed.
Thanks so much for the information, it has been very helpful and is invigorating. For the first time in a long time I am excited about all of the possibilities. I will be contacting you in the near future for some additional information.
Dale Tanski
Mike,
I also like Robinhood Marine. Frankly I didn't think of it when speculating this move. We have been up/out there several times just to look at boats. It seems that $1400/1500 for a mooring is the going rate. Because the marinas do not have tons of flat space, winter storage is expensive compared to what we pay in Buffalo.
We are currently 35 minutes from the boat from home and 10 minutes from the store. Because of that we seldom use the boat as there is always something else to do. I learned this when I made 31 trips from Buffalo to Havre De Grace Maryland to refit this boat to bring back to Buffalo. I would leave Friday evening arriving at around 2:30 am Saturday morning. A full bladder and lots of snack foods makes for a more awake trip. I would work on the boat uninterrupted Saturday and leave around 3pm on Sunday to drive home. The was no grass to cut, no soccer games to go to, no this and no that. It was a 100% dedicated trip each and every time. I know if we move the boat 12 hours away we will go and use it for a week at a time and actually enjoy what we are doing. I'm afraid it is either this or sell it. It's not that I don't sail now, we race a J-22 and are invited to sail customers boats all the time. Being a North Loft brings many invitations and questions when your out there. The extra hour travel you are contemplating may actually be beneficial, time to unwind and time to reflect.
You are the first to mention mosquitoes. In Havre De Grace there were no bugs, not even flys in the dumpster. The houses did not even have window screens. Over the entire summer I was down there, I only saw a handful of mosquitoes. They were big, slow and black. Ours are small fast and camo grey and bite before you can detect them. Those big ones flew so slow you could hear them coming and wack them out of the air easily. So... screens it is.
Thanks so much. Keep in touch on what you are thinking and where you are headed.
Dale Tanski
Both Robinhood and Belfast are nice, though my impression is they cater a bit more to the well heeled. Belfast is the doorway to the Penobscot-really the very best cruising ground Maine has to offer. On the other hand, Casco Bay is a day and a half sail from Penobscot and is very pretty too, but there are a lot more reefs and rocky areas to navigate around. Penobscot gives you beautiful 5 mile long vistas (or longer ) where you can run on a single tack. That's why it is getting so expensive to keep a boat there-the area and services command a higher price because of the location.
They also have most of the higher end repair facilities. Casco Bay is more accessible-only two hours from Boston and full of working class folks who want to get out on the water. I do all my own work-nobody but me has so much as touched my boats except to launch. On Friday nights I'd pack my bag and truck with tools and head up the Maine Turnpike and stay on the hard overnight and work all weekend. West Marine is twenty minutes away as well as Hamiltons-another first class chandlery.
When I want to sail Penobscot, I just build in a day or two sail bothways to get there and enjoy the sailing along the way. whatever you decide, both areas have some of the nicest and least expensive cruising I know of in the us.
Jim
Dale - The previous replies have lots of great advice so I will attempt not to repeat.
The first thing I would recommend is get some cruising guides of the Maine Coast. I highly recommend Taft's - it is great. Tells you where to anchor / how pretty the spot is / history / places to eat / facilities / etc - also interesting reading.
We found that lighting the cabin hurricane lamp was sufficient to cut the chill of a summer night. We also decided if the fog was too thick, even with radar we would just stay put and read the next chapter of our book. Casco Bay is more crowded than Penobscot Bay but it is relative since any area south of Maine is crowded in comparison. The farther "down east" you go, the less crowded and the fewer services available and the better one needs to be from a mechanical perspective.
Portland is at the beginning of Casco Bay as is a nice little city to explore.
The only special gear I would suggest is a skeg in front of your prop. I first did this on our Bristol and had one added to our Pilothouse. Hopefully I can post a picture
imghttp://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo18/jmbjr2/Power%20boat%20prop%20with%20Skeg_zpse76pwstq.jpg/img
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo18/jmbjr2/Power%20boat%20prop%20with%20Skeg_zpse76pwstq.jpg)
John,
Does this work?
What is it made out of?
Dale
Dale - So far, it has worked for me on 2 boats. That said, I still pay attention and do not go blindly thru lobster pots.
One difference in lobstering between Casco Bay and Penobscot Bay: Many in Penobscot Bay use a pot warp, a small line connecting the lobster pot with a small rubber toggle. You really have to pay attention!!
But the beauty more than out weighs the risk!!
I think I need to add clarification to my pot warp comment. The pot warp is a small line with a small rubber toggle connected to the lobster pot buoy. You can't go between them. They seem to be more affected by wind than current that the buoy seems to be.
Again, one must pay close attention.
Has anybody done New York city up to Maine? I am looking at my options to get the boat there and on her bottom is of course the cheapest. Time however cost as well. So, how long does it take?
Dale Tanski
Dale,
I don't know the New York to Mass leg, but I assume its via L.I. sound and I imagine it would be 2-3 days, but others may be able to advise. You then have to decide if you are going through the Cape Cod Canal in Falmouth or taking the route around the Cape. Either way from the northern end of the canal sailing 8 hour days, I'd allow three days to Portland. If you had crew, of course you could go straight through and cut that time in half. From the tip of Provincetown, taking the outside route, its about 60 miles to Newburyport MA (my home port). From Newburyport it s a long 12-16 hours to Portland. Wood Island is a convenient stopping point if you wanted that leg broken up into 2 days. I've done the MAss to Portland leg every year, so those sailing times are pretty accurate.
Jim
Jim,
I'm thinking sailing 24/7 for the most part. Of course to make that happen one big question is does the wind hold at night?
Dale
Dale,
I can only speak for the Cape Cod to Maine leg-if it is blowing from southwest it builds from early afternoon, subsides a bit at sunset and then usually picks up again. If its blowing North Northwest it's generally a fast moving front and will last a day or two at most and continues through the night. If its blowing east, nothing but a light easterly would coax me into leaving the harbor. Southwest is your friend-it can be anywhere from 10-25. the longer it blows the stronger it gets. That's why its called sailing downeast-wind blows you there.
When were you thinking of going?
Interesting thread for me, and good info, thanks. I'll be making this trip in reverse (Rockland to NYC) via the canal next Spring, but plan on taking my time and making a leisurely cruise of it. For what it is worth, NYC to Block can be done in 1 long day, with favorable winds, but I'd allow for 2 days to be conservative.
Chuck
Chuck,
Do you mean NYC to Rock as in Rockport or Block as in Block island?
Dale
Jim,
I'm thinking of heading to Maine at the very end of June or early July. I just read a great article last night on sailing to Maine from points along the east coast, very interesting. Unfortunately searching for it this morning I can't find it. It mentioned sailing from NYC to Cape Cod takes 1 to 2 days nonstop and the same to Portland. If I find this write up I will post it.
Dale
Dale,
A Cruising Guide to the New England Coast is the time proven and definitive guide. It will get you there and explain conditions and point out all of the attractions.
Dale,
I meant I will be returning from Rockport to NYC next Spring. I also meant I've done the trip from NYC (Little Neck Bay) to Block Island, and I think that could be done in 1 long day with good wind. I did it in 2 days in a Cape Dory 25D, in very light wind, motor sailing most of the way. Stopped in Greenport first night, made Block by early afternoon of next day. Good wind and timing the ebbing tide through LI Sound will make a big difference. If I remember right, it was about 110-120 miles total, maybe a bit less.
Chuck
We are planning on heading up to Robinhood Marine in Maine on the weekend of November 19th 20th. The object of the trip is really to pick up my daughter at New Hampshire University for Thanksgiving break but also an excuse to check out the facilities and make a decision if this is where we are going to base out of. I must admit that it is exciting just to think about moving the boat to some where new, and it is rejuvenated my interest both in the boat and cruising again. I would recommend this sort of thing for any of you that are loosing interest or bored of your sailing area and perhaps don't even know it.
For the first time in a long time I am making lists, looking at new products, reading about places to go and dreaming again. I am going to be very busy between now and then but it is invigorating and I don't even know when exactly then is. If all goes well we will move the boat in July but I am not sure if by water or by road. Cost is always a consideration so the Erie Canal, down the Hudson and up the coast has its advantages as well as the lure of adventure. Time is a bigger issue and I guarantee all of you have more time than I do owning a business and all.
I have mentioned moving the boat to a few of my customers and have received more than one positive response in terms of wishing they could do the same with theirs. I also have a customer that keeps their boat in Massachusetts. They head up to Maine all the time and love it. They told me that although they only use their boat 3 or 4 times a season, they use it for a week at a time and insist they use it way more than if it were local. Same reason, if its in your own backyard after a while it is nothing special. Niagara Falls if forty five minutes form our house and I have only been there 6 to 8 times in my life time and the vast majority have been because of out of town guests. To me its just a big hole with water falling into it.
Some of the people that I have talked to I respect as very good sailors. They are the kind of people that I would trust to sail my own boat perhaps more so than I. Even at a nominal fee for the weeks we would not use it I could cover all of my costs. So many things to think about.
Dream on!
Dale Tanski
Dale,
I'm glad you are excited about a change! I just hauled my two boats and am entering the "dreaming season" myself. In my case its more about living aboard full time and cutting loose for the warmer climes. You won't be disappointed with Robinhood Marine. If RobinHood seems too rich for your taste, check out the Royal River Boat Yard in Yarmouth Maine. In the middle of Casco Bay (another great cruising ground) and close to Portland. Day sail to Robinhoods neighborhood and Penobscot Bay. Likely more DIY friendly. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss any aspect of cruising in Maine-I love it and you will too.
Jim
Dale, we did a week in Penobscot Bay at the end of August aboard an historic schooner out of Camden.
One of the places we sailed by was Stonington on Deer Isle, which I think is accessible by land thanks to a bridge over Eggemoggin Reach. It's a long way from anywhere, though.
There was a marina in Stonington where I thought it would be great to keep a boat. Well protected. Amazing cruising grounds. Mix of working boats, wooden boats, and yachts from what I could see. You might check it out. Nearby is the Wooden Boat school.
The lobster pots throughout the region were unbelievable - I'd definitely try to figure out a way to protect the prop.
Chuck
Chuck,
Just checked out Deere Island. Looks like a great place to spend a lifetime. Very close to Belfast which is where this whole "move the boat to Maine" idea was born.
Dale
Just got a Maptech cruising guide to the New England Coast for Christmas. It covers Block Island to the Canadian Coast. Just paging trough this book has opened up the idea of taking a summer to get to Maine. Is there that much too see and that many different places to go, or when you are there in person is it like everything else, the same old thing.
I remember going up to Old Forge New York snowmobiling when I was younger. I heard for years how fantastic riding in Old Forge was and a half hour after we got there it became obvious that for me it was a huge disappointment. You can ride off of an 8-1/2" x 11" trail map up there in 20 minutes. I have ridden in Michigan for three days two separate years in a row and never came close to the edge of the same trial map there.
What does it cost to stay in these places along the way? Is it feasible to leave the boat for weeks at a time until the next move?
Merry Christmas
Dale Tanski
You could cruise Maine for twenty years and not see it all-I know as I have been trying. The far north, Machias, Lubec, Bar Harbor and Penobscot Bay are different then the midcoast which I'd define as Passamquoddy Bay, Muscongus Bay and even Boothbay. The north is more rugged and in some respects more open with longer stretches between harbors and islands. The midcoast is characterized by less rugged environs, shorter distances between things to see (and run into). The midcoast is also more inhabited with more abundant stopovers and a larger year round population. It also has deep and navigable rivers which can be explored deep into the interior-with fine views and secluded, pastoral anchorages. The south of Maine is best characterized by Casco bay which is close to twenty miles across. At the southern end is the beautiful and bustling city of Portland and Cape Elizabeth. On the northern end is Cape Small which is a rugged and lightly populated headland home to Popham Beach, a long sweeping expanse of beach that is consistently rated as one of the most beautiful in the country. In between the two are at least half a hundred islands that are mostly deserted, though some are inhabited and all are accessible and beautiful.
Maine is unique, people fly and sail in from all over the world to explore it. I will be moving my boat back there next summer as I never tire of the beauty, variety and slower pace of life that Maine has to offer.
Jim
Thank you for taking the time and the excellent response. I have been studying both online NOAA charts and split screening them with Google maps satellite view maps. It is interesting to see what the charted bottom looks like and a view from a bird's eye perspective. I have also begun to appreciate our 4-1/2 foot draft better than ever before. Lots of places without any houses we can tuck nicely into.
Are there any anchoring laws/restrictions in Maine? I have already researched acquiring a non-commercial lobster license which is semi not possible for us. I did find this... For motorboats registered in another state or county using Maine internal waters for less than 60 consecutive days, Maine registration and validation stickers are not required. I assume that use means on the boat? Have you had or heard of any problems with that? In New York it is 90 days in the water or on the hard. After 90 days they can assess an 8% use fee. I know of people that have left their boat on the hard for winter and get a bill.
Dale
8%! ouch.
Florida was like that. But it was the boat that was allowed 90 days. Didn't matter if you were there or not. Even if you had current rego in another state
Fortunately our 1977 was deemed to be a classic boat and rego was only $7. They also made us register our dink separately which cost over 200 including sales tax. So you might want to see if they have that classification. Save you some bank.
Dale,
sorry for the late response, I did not see your question. Regarding registration and out of state issues: have never worried nor ever heard of anyone having a problem. Mainers welcome cruisers and the revenue they bring, I doubt they would ever bother you (and how would they prove you were not just visiting?). They also have very little law enforcement personnel on the water. I would not worry about it.
Jim