Wondering if anyone has tried the Rule Lo profile bilge pump, 900S or the whale version in a Pearson. It looks like it would work well in the deep bilge as a sipper pump to keep it dry. A little concerned about short cycling and killing the batteries.
I have had the Whale Supersub in my 367 bilge for a couple of years and it has been nothing but a problem. I can't trust it to shut off by itself. I've taken it out several times to clean it and check the one-way valve, made sure it was level, but still it doesn't shut off sometimes. I can't leave it on when I'm away and risk having a dead battery. Going to try something with a mechanical switch.
Mike
I put the low profile whale in last spring as a sipper, and a high-volume backup halfway up the bilge. No problems. Much drier down there.
Since I replaced the boat's batteries, I haven't had any problems with the Whale bilge pump.
Thanks for the info Mike. Do you think the reason you had problems was that the battery bank was at the end of it's life? In researching it more, I had three concerns:
1. Short cycling because they pump the bilge quite dry, but when they shut off, the backflush from the hose fills the bilge up enough to trigger pumping, then shut off and again and again until your batteries are dead. I figured with a 15 foot hose 1 1/8 diameter, that's about 3/4 of a gallon in the hose. The Rule can be set to either a 1.3 inch depth at turn on, or 2 inches. With our small narrow deep bilge, I don't quite know how deep 3/4 gallon would be, but I remember dumping a gallon of anti freeze in it for winterization, and it did fill up a bit.
2. The Rule design periodically turns on and measures current draw to see if the pump is pumping dry, depending on which mode you use. No load on the motor is interpreted as no water in the bilge, then shut down. Repeat every 2.5 minutes. Over time, there is concern that this could be a major battery drain as well as resulting in premature wear out of the pump. I wonder how much draw is this action, in amp hours, on a typical installation? The spec sheet says it turns on "briefly" and draws 4 amps. If briefly means 5 seconds every 2.5 minutes, that would be 3.2 amp hours per day, not insignificant.
3. On the Whale design, the sensor appears to be electromagnetic and sealed. Sound good in theory, And t seems like it works from your experience, but what is the parasitic electrical draw? The instructions appear to caution you about having the sensor too close to other objects. Sounds like it works for you though.
I'm currently leaning toward the Rule version because you can choose the depth when it comes on using the water level setting. I am assuming there is no parasitic electrical draw on that setting, but I am not sure.
Dave,
The batteries were definitely end of life. I can only assume that was the problem . I also periodically flush the scum off the pump just to make sure the sensor works.
The Whale comes with a one-way valve to prevent the back flush problem. The original Rule pump had instructions that recommended against a one-way valve.The pump is at the bottom of the very deep and narrow 367 bilge and has about a 5 foot head. The Rule recycled the same gallon of water all season long. :-)
When I originally installed the Whale pump, it would bounce around a little when it tuned on and wouldn't stay level. The sensor would end up in the water and the intake out of it. I put a length of pvc pipe around the hose and wire-wrapped to the crossbeam under the v-drive. Seems to work.
I'm only on the boat on the weekends and haven't seen any averse effects on the batteries. It hardly goes on when I'm there.
Mike
I put this devise together a few years back to solve the bilge pump cycling problem. Its a programmable industrial time delay relay and a DPDT relay in octal sockets. You can get the parts on-line for about $40 from Mouser Electronics and put it together in about an hour.
http://www.pearson365.com/forum/index.php?topic=1264.msg6825#msg6825
My float switch is attached to a lead weight and dropped in the bilge. I need about 3" a water before it comes on. The time delay feature empties the bilge to about 1/2" then shuts off. It runs long enough to empty the hose so no water drains back in to the bilge.
It will wire directly to your existing bilge pump control panel. I can put together a parts list and schematic if there is any interest.
Pete
Thanks Pete. I saw that post a while ago. The concept looks great and the execution looks nice too. Am I correct in assuming DPDT means Double Pole Double Throw? I have to admit though, I don't know what an octal socket is. Can this circuit support two pumps, or is it better to have the two completely separated to avoid a common failure scenario? It seems like you were running three pumps. Does this timer have three independent channels? Failure of the existing float switch and wring to it caused us to get a very full bilge twice in the past.
If I am understanding correctly, the timer delays the pump from shutting off after the float switch shuts off to pump from 3 inches down to 1/2 inch, and to clear the hose. How long can you set it for without risking burning out the pump by running it dry?
Our float switch currently is mounted on a board that goes down into the bilge. The board is mounted to the fwd side of baby sump under the Vee drive. The pump is essentially dropped down by it's hose and is loose to flop around down there, which I don't like. Currently, the water has to get to about 6 - 8 inches before it turns on.
My plan is to use the new Rule or Whale Low profile as a sipper, and mount the old big pump on the board up higher as the backup. I hadn't really given the wiring a lot of thought yet. The nice thing about the automatic switch in the Rule pump is that I don't have to install a new float valve.
The Rule low profile pump comes with a optional check valve to prevent back flow. I understand this violates the ABYC recommendations, I assume because of the possibly of it getting clogged, but it gives me concerns about water freezing in the line in the winter. I could take it out in the winter, but then I am back to the back flow problem. For that reason, the timer delay seems like a good idea. It gets around the issue of needing a check valve.