A guy gave me a 1960s British Seagull Forty Plus (3.5 hp) outboard motor before he left the marina. An extremely simple 2 stroke motor that I was told didn't run. Expecting a seized piston I rebuilt it. Best I can tell it didn't run because the points had closed up. But it looks great now all polished up, re-chromed and painted. I have about $50 tied up in it.
It's a long shaft (L) version so to use it for a dinghy motor I will have to saw it down. It's a quite simple procedure. Saw the same amount off the 3 pieces of tubing and the square drive shaft and put it back together.
Here's my questions: Is the Seagull a worthwhile dinghy motor. I know they are loud, drip oil and gas in the water. The 40 plus has no reverse or neutral and you start it with a rope. But it is reliable they say.
Or, Should I leave it as a long shaft and sell it to someone looking for a sailboat kicker, and buy a modern 4 cycle outboard. Restored Seagulls go for at least $400.
Thanks Pete
Pete,
Maybe its just me... but it would make a great anchor. In its day it was an engineering marvel that wowed audiences with its mystical power. I get calls way too often from people looking for parts for an XYZ outboard built in 1973. The first thing I have learned to do is count out loud 83, 93, 2003, 2013 = 40 + years old. What are you looking to do with this 40 something year old outboard I ask? Most people say "get out on the water" and then the realization kicks in that the damn this is over 40 years old.
Old outboards didn't run well when they were brand spankin new out of the box. Like you said they are loud, smoke, stink and make pretty rainbows on the water. When they ran they burned maybe 60% of the fuel they passed. I have been told that the Seagull would even start in reverse on occasion.
The only person that would pay $400 for a Seagull is someone that had an emotional connection with one just like 57 Chevies. Life is too short to rely on a 40 year old one lunger unless you have the need to feel needed.
Just one persons opinion... Dale Tanski
I actually HAVE cruised with one. Twice. Both times it was an incredible pain in the @ss. 10:1 oil mix, winding the rope a dozen times to get it started, etc.
Like Dale said, if you are a purist to old time techno, have a 55 Chev in the backyard you like to tinker on and don't mind rowing, then fine, its the motor for you. If you want to have reliable transportation from place to place then get a newer outboard and save some hair pulling.
Wayne
You guy s are certainly entitled to your opinions regarding the famed British Seagull. First let me remind you all that this blog is for owners of a 40 year old sailboat. I will contend that a Westerbeke 4-108 would make a far better anchor than this amazing little 30 lb outboard motor.
Before I begin my rebuttal, some facts about the "Gull". Its actually an 84 year old design that has changed little since it was first manufactured by the Sunbeam Motorcycle company. During WWII it saw a lot of duty. After the war it became the premier recreational outboard motor. In the 1960's and 70's they manufactured as many as 80,000 seagulls a year. Currently the Seagull remains at cult status with Gull enthusiasts in Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand were Seagull races can draw large crowds. There is an international Seagull owners group.
My interest in the Seagull comes form a life long love of all iron that is British. This can be traced back to my first job as a mechanic for the Berliner Corp which imported Norton and AJS and Ducati motorcycles to the US in the 1960's and 70's. You can spot these machines by the artistry that went into making the molds for these beautifully cast aluminum crankcases. Very high quality stuff. Not at all like a 55 Chevy. The Gull has been compared to the engine found in vintage and also very collectable Vespa Motor scooters of the same era.
Next it is the simplicity of the design. Most interesting is the fact that this motor is water cooled yet there is no water pump or impeller to fail. Water circulates up through the head when its running. I don't know how they do it. The ignition is a dirt simple Villers magneto. No ignition coil or wires to break. The engine has no ball bearings whatsoever. The crank rides in bronze bushings. You need only 2 whitworth wrenches to disassemble the entire motor which takes about 15 minutes. Parts are readily available, especially if you're in Great Britain, New Zealand or Australia.
So in summary I like this little outboard because its a timeless design that appears to be indestructible. I've never heard of anyone pulling that rope more than 12 times before it started. I can hang it off the stern pulpit of my 40 year old sailboat and it will not look out of place. And most of all as I already mentioned, it was FREE.
The biggest argument pro and con about the Seagull comes from environmentalists, who want it outlawed and libertarian "Don't Tread on me" types that feel they have an inalienable right to what ever form of propulsion they want. In response to the environmental concerns, you can now get bio degradable 2 cycle oil. (Bio Green)
Ok now to find a 40 year old dinghy to refinish.
Pete
Pete,
From now on you shall be known as "techno-masicist". I have worked on a few things British with their upside down bolt size designation to their Whitworth threads. Let us not forget their backwards positive grounding system. Who said that the Brits don't have a sense of humor. I have even worked on your beloved Norton crotch rockets complete with British Standard Pipe threads.
I would guess the reason your special little outboard appears to be indestructible is you secretly realize that it will never run long enough to wear out. As far as a timeless design goes I would rank that "Gull" right up their with the pyramids, and some of us are still wondering what they were really built for. As far as hanging it off of your push pit, it indeed will not look out of place there as no one expects it to be clamped on a transom making productive noise.
You have a point regarding our 40 year old blow boats but the next thing better than free is cheap. Unfortunately you're $50 in already and I fear that this is just the beginning as you are talking about a 40 year old dink to justify this British iron fetish of yours.
Dale
Dale,
Well said, especially the masochist part. You know each time you wrap and pull that rope, the bitter end whips your back. 12 lashes to start the Seagull. Eye Captain.
British iron, its love hate thing. I could go on for awhile about it too. Pete
Pete, I'm glad you restored and are using the Seagull. If it works for you and is not illegal, go for it. It truly will look gnarly on the pushpit. I certainly would use it if I had one. In fact I used a Cruise'N'Carry until the recoil starter nylon pieces broke. It may have been as noisy as a Seagull. It did not have the power though.
Anyone know where to get a new starter recoil setup for a Cruise-N-Carry?
Pete- Two more cents worth....We used a Gull as a kicker on a Venture 21 in the early 80's. We had to rebuild it when we got it. Dirt simple. It usually started and pushed a displacement hull well, but could be temperamental. It was noisy and dirty, but cheap. Our joke was that it could be repaired with a paper clip and a wad of gum. I have fond memories of it, but that may be because memories improve over time. However, I have to side with Dale on the general British iron issue. I reached my limit with Lucas electrics and totally weird fastener approach. But God bless all you guys who keep these relics alive for the rest of us to appreciate. (From afar.) Jim
In our sailing club, my relic outboards were the only ones that would reliably start and run....in fact, for two years they were the only outboards that ran at all! It was a running joke that they ran, but they kept on ticking. I have towed many a dinghy to the mother boat.
Jim,
There could be a very logical reason for what you have said... Ethanol. I will bet that your "vintage" outboard is a two cycle. Two cycles as you know burn a lot more fuel than a comparable horsepower 4 stroke of today. Two strokes do not process it as efficiently as a 4 stroke does, but that's why they are no longer for sale in this country.
That being said, requiring more fuel means the fuel delivery system has to be sized differently (larger) than a more efficient carburetor. Each of the jets and the fuel passageways inside the carburetor are larger in diameter than todays engines.
Ethanol is nothing more than alcohol. Alcohol has a propensity to attract and absorb water. Those of you that live in a cold weather climate remember a product called dry gas. Dry gas was primarily alcohol and it pulled the large globs of water out of the gasoline and absorbed it into smaller globs. (Globs is a technical name by the way) When the temperature dropped, the water froze. Large globs of ice clogged fuel systems and cars stopped running or ran very poorly. The dry gas treated fuel with the smaller globs meant smaller frozen chunks of ice. The small ice globs would pass through the fuel system and the car would keep running.
Marine engines are surrounded by water both in liquid from below and all around in the form of water vapor from above. When you burn fuel it must be replaced with air through your vent or the fuel will stop flowing and the engine will stop. The air that comes in brings with it more water vapor. Before ethanol enhanced fuel, it was no big deal as oil and water do not mix and the water vapor stayed on its own side of the world. The ethanol contained in the fuel today now attracts the water vapor with a passion and draws it into the gasoline. More and more water is drawn into the fuel and eventually it reaches the tipping point. From that moment on it is all down hill and water begins to form globs of water, lots of water. Now there is water/ethanol suspended in the fuel.
In large engines with large fuel passageways, the globs will pass, but in small engines the globs will not fit down the small passage ways. I have serviced many engines and have witnessed globs of water lodged in fuel passageways especially the idle circuit where the passageways are at their smallest. Water is sticky and wants to form a ball compared to the gasoline and it clings to the aluminum and gets stuck in the carburetor passageways preventing fuel flow. The only way to remove it often is with compressed air. Engines that are dying on ethanol/water will tell you because they will not run at an idol first. As the problem persists they won't even run properly during high speed operation. Eventually they will only run with the choke half on.
So... back to the top of the page. New more efficient motors have itty bitty tiny fuel passages because they burn much less fuel per hour of operation. These extra small passages are easily clogged by ethanol/water droplets. Older piglet motors use lots of fuel and their fuel arteries are sized larger accordingly. Because of this your old outboard will pass the globs when others wont.
I did not touch on the fact that ethanol looses its octane content within 30 days from when it is manufactured. This is very important because it alone has an octane rating of 113. They mix low octane grade gasoline with it to reach pump grade 87 octane or regular gas. That is fine until the octane rating in the ethanol goes away and that fuel in your tank can be well under the 87 octane that you paid for. This is much of the reason that ethanol fuel gives you way worse gas mileage.
Hope this helps...
Dale Tanski
Dale, youbetcha they are two cycle engines. I use the Nissan to back up a Lehr 2.5hp propane engine. Talk about starting on the first pull! That Lehr is the cat's meow on starting. It is water cooled and pretty quite...certainly quieter than the Nissan and totally silent compared to a Seagull, but then who can hear anything after running a Seagull.
Anyway, here's a jolly cheer to all the antiques out there still running (I also refer to us old antiques!).