I love my boat, and even love my Westebeke 40. It is a very reliable engine. However, there is a lot of noise and vibration that I have been trying to track down. I have checked all my alignments, etc. and think that a good part of it is coming from the engine. I replaced my engine mounts a few years ago with similar type mounts. This did not reduce the noise and vibration
Has anyone installed "soft" engine mounts such as sold by Aquadrive or Evolution Marine?
Richard,
I am with you on this one. It isn't so much the noise of the engine itself, it is the noise of every other item on the boat "singing" from the vibrations of the engine. Even my rig vibrates in a very anoying fashion. If you find anything please send up a flare.
Dale Tanski
Will do. I have found out a few things already and will write this up later.
Here is what I have found out so far about reducing engine vibration. This does not address other sources of noise, such as the noise radiated from the engine itself. There also may be vibration and noise from the prop shaft, if there are alignment problems, etc.
I am assuming that my current replacement engine mounts are not good (or good enough) at absorbing vibration, and that much of the noise down below is from engine vibration being transmitted through the engine bed to the rest of the boat.
There are several companies that make vibration-reducing engine mounts.
http://www.evolutionmarine.com (http://www.evolutionmarine.com)
http://www.aquadrive.net (http://www.aquadrive.net)
http://www.polyflex.com.au (http://www.polyflex.com.au)
http://www.pyiinc.com (http://www.pyiinc.com)
Of these, the most favored seems to be PYI, with their "R&D" products. I have requested more information from them. Ideally, the mounts would be the same size and mounting hole pattern as the current mounts. One (recommended, but untested) way to replace them is to run the lower mounting nut up to lift the engine enough to remove the mount, and do this one mount at at time. (I actually hoisted up the engine when I replaced my original mounts.)
The vibration-reducing mounts may allow more engine movement, but checking with a Westerbeke dealer, I was told this should be taken up by the u-joint on the drive shaft. They said there should be no basic problem with using softer mounts. One advantage of the v-drive system is that the prop shaft is not loading on the engine, thus allowing us to use more flexible engine mounts. Another vendor agreed that using a flexible shaft coupling might help protect the v-drive. However, it would not be good to use very flexible mounts that allow a lot of engine movement.
Walter Machine (maker of the v-drive) said that there could be problems if there was too much engine movement, as the input oil seal to the v-drive could be damaged. One option might be to use a flexible shaft coupling, also available from PYI and other vendors. Walter Machine recommended a flexible damper plate, such as the Centraflex Two-stage Damper. They said that this would reduce a lot of vibration. The Centafex DS series may be what is needed. I am still researching this.
Gerry.Dawson@centa-uk.co.ukI am not sure what the difference would be between putting a vibration-reducing damper plate versus a flexible coupling at the aft end of the drive shaft.
One prop shop in the SF Bay Area mentioned that I should check the existing mounts. He said if the mounts are not equally supporting the engine, a lot of vibration may be transmitted through one or two mounts. He said to check by (carefully!) holding my finger against the side of the mount where the metal ring is to feel the amount of vibration. He said this adjustment helped reduce vibration by 90% in his boat.
I think the solution would be to try adjusting the existing mounts first. Then try using PYI engine mounts with no other changes. I am not sure about the flexible coupling and whether it would be a good "safety measure" to protect the v-drive. I am still researching this. I wish I could find someone who has actually worked through this on a P365, or other boat with a v-drive.
My engine works just fine at present. My goal is to "do no harm" and reduce the vibration with no side effects on the engine or v-drive.
If anyone else could help locate more information and experience on this, it would be appreciated.
After a bit more research, I found that the best vibration reducing engine mounts seem to be made by R&D Marine. After talking with them a couple of times, they recommended their "Super Mounts," part number 800-101. Cost is $94 each. They appear to be the same size as the existing mounts I have, more or less.
My boat is in Mexico at present, and I am reluctant to take on a big job like this so far away from home and using my vacation time! The engine works OK now, and there could be problems with engine to v-drive alignment, etc.
First, however, it would be good to check the existing mounts to make sure the engine is equally loading on all four, as described in my note above.
When it is the right time and place, I plan to install the R&D mounts. I could also try a flexible shaft coupling at the engine end of the v-drive shaft, but engine mounts first.
The last time I did this, I lifted the transmission end of the engine with a come-along and some rope, with a 4 X 4 across the companion way slider. I don't recall how I lifted the other end of the engine. Maybe I used a jack of some kind? Maybe it was so difficult, I have repressed the memory!
Someone told me that an easier way to do this is to just back off the lower nut on the old engine mounts and gradually lift the engine up, one end at at time, and slip the old mounts out and the new mounts in. This sounds much easier!
Has anyone done this?
[attachment=0:19ko2mxj]Engine Mount.jpg[/attachment:19ko2mxj]
Richard. Iam extremely interested to find out if you ever changed you engine mounts. I have the engine out going thru it. It needed new mounts, and I would love to cut down the vibration. Did you use the flexable coupler? By the way, in case any body didn't know. Nothing is cheap for a Westerbeke. Looking for a timing gear cover.
I'm very interested in this topic as well.
Since my transmission, shaft, and V Drive are out It would be a reasonable time to consider it.
Will soft mounts quiet "The Beast" and if so how much is one of the issues.
Having spent a lot of time concentrating on that part of Windrider I've come to the conclusion I may be able to replace the mounts one at a time without removing the whole thing. If I'm real careful alignment will be marginal.
Hope we get a reply.
By the way, you may very well be able to get parts at a fraction of what Westerbeke charges by checking with Perkins Diesel dealers. I've had very good results in the past
. The W40 is a Perkins 107.
Henri Hali
SV Windrider
I called Walter Machine today. I had to order more parts. Talked to man named Don. He said it would be OK to use a soft mount, as long as it was not to soft to where you could shake the engine by hand. From what I read about the R&D mounts Richard talked about they should work good. Don did say he would not recommend using a flexable coupler. He did say that alignment is critical. I am rebuilding the v-drive so I did order a manual for it. $20.00. It shows how to do the alignment with drive shaft to transmition coupler. I am going to try them. I hope to have this projet done by the end of the month, damn tired of it.
Well, I called R&D. After checking all the differant size soft mounts, they were all to tall. They would not leave any room for adjustment. I ended up ordering part# 800-004. It is just a regular style mount. I did not check with any other company's to see if there was something else out there, just running out of time.
Resurecting this thread to add some info for anyone contemplating this.
During our engine out overhaul here in New Zealand, I too was trying to quiet my engine and reduce vibrations. I replaced the mounts with R&D 800-003 mounts. I also replaced the damper plate with a R&D high deflection plate. When the engine went back in it was aligned almost perfectly using PeteW's method. The prop shaft was removed and checked for true, along with the output flange on the v-drive.
After all that? Its just as loud and vibes just as much. Nothing much gained. Just some peace of mind on a new drive and a few boat bucks spent. I'm looking at sound insulating the engine compartment next, which I shoulda probably have done first.
I have no experience with the Westerbeke W40 but I'm getting the sense that this engine may be prone to noise and vibration. I have a W58 in my Pearson and find it to be a relatively smooth running engine at all RPMs. My vibration issues were related to excessive back-lash in the V-drive, worn damper plate, bad motor mounts and an alignment. With all of those things repaired the improvement was significant. The test for me was the successful elimination of resonances at various RPM levels while in gear. But it still vibrates the cockpit aft seat so you need to sit on cushions to keep your teeth from chattering.
Things I found to be important in setting up new motor mounts was to make sure the mounts were equally weighted. With that said I remain aware of the component of lateral vibration that is noticeable only at very low RPMs. The 4 motor mounts seem to do little to combat this . You may see this as that side to side rock in the motor when you shut it down.
The white paper below offers a discussion and a solution to lateral engine vibration.
http://www.academia.edu/5180778/VIBRATION_OF_MARINE_DIESEL_ENGINE_FOUNDATION
The rubber dampened tourque tubes that mount between the head and firewall of most front wheel drive cars are there to remove the lateral vibrations that exists in all internal combustion engines. The above paper suggests that this is also something that's applicable to marine engines with vibration problems. The big question would be: Where to connect the damper tube to the boat hull and would it help or make things even worse?
Sound deadening is something I am interested in also. You used to be able to buy lead sheets sandwiched between 2 layers of high compression foam. Is that stuff still available?
Pete