Simrad WP40

[CaptCG]

Greetings All,
My Simrad WP40 autopilot on my P365 sloop has failed.  The red flashing light (standby mode) on the keypad unit still flashes but I can't get it to go to "autopilot" mode.  I'm thinking either the keyboard unit has failed or the central processor has died.  Thoughts?  I sail solo so I sure would like to find another keyboard unit (assuming that is the problem).
Carl Neumann
s/v Sea Hiker

[Dale Tanski]

I am thinking WP30?
Dale

[CaptCG]

Opps!  Thanks for the correction Dale.  WP30

[Dale Tanski]

Simrad obsoleted the WP32 wheel pilot about 12 years ago. The WP30 roamed the oceans long before that.  Parts have dried up on both years ago.  Today's Raymarine wheel pilot is similar to the Simrad (Navico)and in a few ways better.  Both are borderline for the 365's mature displacement however. 
Dale

[CaptCG]

Dale, can you please elaborate on your "borderline" comment?  I am looking at the Raytheon EV200 vs the CPT autopilot for replacing "Otto".  Thanks, Carl

[Dale Tanski]

Carl,
My comment regarding a P365 displacement was specifically for wheel pilots, in Raymarines case the EV100.  Their wheel pilot is rated at 16,500 pounds and the average P365 with all the stuff aboard is realistically well on its way to 20,000lbs.  Take into account the skeg hung rudder and the weather helm that design generates and any wheel pilot is undersized unless it is used for specific tasks in specific conditions. 

With the EV200 you can select the type of device and any load it will impart to steer the boat.  In this case an EV200 would be fine if properly sized and installed.  You mentioned Raytheon.  Make no mistake, Raymarine is no Raytheon.  Raytheon designed and made robust and reliable equipment for years and years.  Raymarine makes fine equipment but think of them as the residential branch and Raytheon was the commercial division.

One thing that I personally dislike about Raymarine is their Seatak network system. It is NEMA 2000, (the current standard), but it will not plug and play with anybody elses equipment without a $900 adapter, so standard it is not.  Simrad, B&G, Lowrance, Garmin and so forth all plug and play together, Ray will not.  The cable ends are different and the protocol is different. If you have any current other equipment aboard that is NEMA 2000 you are screwed. We have been told (trade scuttle) this is becoming a huge issue to people as they are figuring it out and Ray has had a hit in sales. They are supposedly changing their stuff but it might be too little too late.

Dale

[SVJourney]

Since we have used both systems, thought I would chime in here.

We cruised over 12,000 miles with the CPT.  No frills at all, but it absolutely will handle the boat through almost anything.  Relatively cheap, only took me 2 hours to install, simple, reliable.  Kevin, at CPT, has the best customer service known to man. We bought the CPT after multiple drive units failed on the Raymarine we had.

We also did about 8,000 miles with the Raymarine X-5 which is the predecessor to the EV-100.  It does work, it would handle the boat, but you do have to trim it down to reduce weather helm.  Would be just fine for weekend cruising. I would HIGHLY advise taking a spare drive unit(~$500) with you if you go cruising. I would also advise lubricating your steering pulleys and steering shaft on a regular basis to reduce wheel forces.  Buy it from West Marine and buy the extended warranty from them as Raymarine will not warranty the drive on your boat as it is too heavy.

I would get the CPT.


Wayne

[PeteW]

What I am sensing from the experiences of others is that the weak link in any autopilot system is not the electronics but rather the drive system.  I say that the best drive system you can get is from Octopus.

http://octopusdrives.com/linear-drive-family

Without question any electric hydraulic below deck system that connects to the rudder post via dedicated tiller arm will be the most reliable. You can loose your wheel steering altogether and this type of system will continue to function.

But I think the linear hydraulic system from Octopus is superior because they offer adjustable flow rate. By adjusting flow rate one can modify the response of the autopilot system. For you Engineering control theory types out there we are talking about system loop gain or more specifically when it comes to flow rate in the hydraulic pump we specifically mean phase error velocity.

The rule of thumb out there for drive response time is 15 seconds max lock to lock. I have found that on the 365 with its over dampened 3/4 keel is that this response time of the drive system is too slow to maintain a course in choppy seas and 25 knot winds while under power. I'm right at that 15 second maximum.

For electronics I have a Raymarine X-10 Type I Smartpilot with P70 control head. I am swapping out my Octopus 1210 (1.0 L/min) pump with a Type II Octopus 1212 (1.2 L/min) pump because I think the Pearson 365 needs more loop gain. I've turned the electronic response in the X-10 up to max and this did help but not quite enough. Wow, type II pump on a type I controller. I can hear heads exploding at Raymarine right now. The thing they don't get is its not about force on the rudder as much as it is response time and the latter does not necessarily equate to excessive motor current.

I'm not much on warranties. I'd rather purchase last years model cheap and put together a system I am confident in.  So I'd walk away from any sales guy that says their controller will only work with their drive.

Incidentally the Raymarine autopilot systems when configured with a wind vane on the Seatalkng backbone will operate in vane mode. The safest mode IMO.   Seatalkng is NMEA2000 and I have adapted the Raymarine  backbone to accept and send data to non Raymarine equipment with a simple Seatalkng to NMEA200 adapter cable ($18). See my post on the Actisense NMEA gateway ($150) for bridging older legacy NMEA0186 systems to Seatalkng. I'm running an old Garmin GPS 0186 receiver on the Seatalk 2000 backbone without issues.

Pete